Canon announces free 24p / 25p update for EOS 5D Mk. II

Erik Andersen · January 29th, 2010, 02:43 PM

I think it's worth noting that Canon has it's eye not just on short term profits but on building a long term camera line that is unified and professional. I don't think they like the 5D shooting 30.00 when the 7D and 1D are 23.98, 29.97 etc. It's much more than a money grab.

Jon Fairhurst · January 29th, 2010, 08:51 PM

Quote:

...why do you think they announced it at all? Why do you think they are even going to put out the firmware? I mean why bother?

The answer seems obvious to me (though I don't have inside information.) Canon wanted to keep 5D2 sales strong through the holiday sales season. They didn't want people to bad mouth the 5D2 during that critical sales time.

So, why not just deliver it before Christmas? My gut feeling is that the decision to release 24/25p was made very late. Sure, there was proof-of-concept code, but no production-ready code. By the time the decision was made, they probably weren't confident that they could code and test the new firmware by Thanksgiving. And nobody wants a running change just before the engineers go home for Christmas and New Years.

Pete Bauer · January 29th, 2010, 09:05 PM

We're all welcome to our opinions. I'm sure someone from Canon has read yours and read mine. And although they certainly do take customer feedback to heart as they shape their future product lines, my opinion is that all the handwringing in this thread is not going to change their firmware release date by one second.

This same "Canon is losing money" theme was repeated in http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eo...7d-owners.html...I was going to move those cross-posts to this thread, but as deeply embedded in the conversation as they are, it's too much hassle. If there are publically available facts on Canon's financial situation that bear on the firmware's release, please put them in this thread.

FWIW, I disagree with a couple more of Bill's assumptions as well.

You don't need to drop thousands on new L glass to do DSLR video; there are a number of threads about finding economical glass for video. As I build my collection, it'll be primarily Canon L lenses, but that's to get the most out of the 21MP of still imagery. So I don't buy the L glass argument. Not that it matters, as none of us have any facts to base our assumptions of what works for Canon's balance sheets; the appropriate Canon offices obviously DO.

A camera being in stock at major vendors doesn't reflect, in and of itself, a whole bunch about sales volume or manufacturing capacity. The workings of any given supply chain has got to be as veiled to us consumers as the release schedule for firmware! Heck, the 5DmII still had spotty availability at big places like B&H last April when I just happened to browsing in my local Fry's and they had three in stock. I had already decided NOT to buy one at that time but there it was, so I went home with one. (Apologies to DVinfo sponsors!).

If the first half of 2010 passes without further word, then I'll join y'all in whining. Especially if it doesn't have 60p (which they haven't promised but I want!).
;-)

Billy Griffin · January 30th, 2010, 01:54 PM

My feeling is that Canon will NOT offer a firmware upgrade afterall. Perhaps they spoke out before realizing the camera could not accomodate such an upgrade? Nevertheless, I have given up hope on ever getting those frame rates we want. Thanks, Canon. Thanks alot! (sigh)

Daniel Browning · January 30th, 2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Griffin

My feeling is that Canon will NOT offer a firmware upgrade afterall. Perhaps they spoke out before realizing the camera could not accomodate such an upgrade? Nevertheless, I have given up hope on ever getting those frame rates we want. Thanks, Canon. Thanks alot! (sigh)

It's only the end of January. They have five more months to keep their promise ("first half of 2010"). I suggest reserving your despair until after they've actually failed. Personally, I have no doubt that they will deliver it by the end of June.

Peer Landa · January 30th, 2010, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Browning

Personally, I have no doubt that they will deliver it by the end of June.

This is also my assumption. And as Jon talked about earlier, I believe the announcement was rushed just so they could get a chunk of the Christmas shopping, but at that time weren't sure how much work was involved -- hence, giving themselves a buffer by the "first half of 2010" announcement. I'll be (happily) surprised if we see the software upgrade before May.

-- peer

Nigel Barker · January 30th, 2010, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Binder

Yeah, they're missing $1,000 every time it happens.

I seriously doubt that the difference in profit for Canon between a 5D & a 7D is $1000. In fact I wouldn't be at all surprised if the profit on each unit sold were very similar.

Chris Hurd · January 30th, 2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Griffin

My feeling is that Canon will NOT offer a firmware upgrade afterall.

They are absolutely committed to offering the firmware upgrade, and they will most definitely release it well within the announced time frame (that is, prior to 30 June 2010). You can count on it.

Jon Fairhurst · January 30th, 2010, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Griffin

My feeling is that Canon will NOT offer a firmware upgrade afterall.

I can understand having that feeling, since we've been wanting 24/25p for a darn long time. Fortunately, it's just a feeling. There's no evidence whatsoever that Canon intends to break its promise.

And I would submit that there's no way that "they spoke out before realizing the camera could not accomodate such an upgrade?" They had a good year for a proof-of-concept test before they made the announcement. Such a commitment wouldn't be made willy-nilly.

David Chilson · January 30th, 2010, 11:21 PM

I have been holding off purchasing the camera because of this update, but I know the date. It will be exactly one day past the time I have to return whatever it was I purchased. Not only that it will be called the 5D Mark IIs and it will have new whiz bang features that you are nobody if you don't have, and I won't. And as a final kick in the pants I won't be able to sell what I just bought for 50 cents on the dollar because nobody wants what you bought, they want the camera you don't have, just like you. And I now have to keep this camera until I save up enough money to buy the next camera which will also be one model short of having the features I really need.

Erik Andersen · January 31st, 2010, 12:54 AM

David, you're right, it would be so much better if cameras stopped improving. I'm still hanging on to my Canon 814 XL-S Super 8 camera, waiting for just the right perfect all-encompassing Jesus camera (that costs under $3,000) to hit the stores. It's pretty frustrating. Same goes for my cassette walkman with giant headphones.

Bill Binder · February 1st, 2010, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

They are absolutely committed to offering the firmware upgrade, and they will most definitely release it well within the announced time frame (that is, prior to 30 June 2010). You can count on it.

I'm with you on that one, but the real question is whether it'll have 60p or not?

Bill Binder · February 2nd, 2010, 04:45 PM

I'd actually probably pay Canon $500 right now if they would give me an upgrade with 1080p24 and 720p60 tomorrow. Being able to shoot 24p in FF with the option of conforming 30p and 60p back to 24p for slow mo would easily be worth it. I'm literally going to cry if there's no 60p on the 5D2 because I don't really want a 7D... Ugh, the wait is killing me, patience is not one of my strong points as you can tell, heh.

Jim Giberti · February 2nd, 2010, 07:04 PM

Honestly, I'm like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde with Canon and the new technologies in general.

Half the time I'm just in awe that I can grab a little DSLR with a beautiful HD screen choose the right 35mm AF lens, compose, zoom, quick focus and "film" directly to a tiny CF card.
I mean it was only yesterday that I had to haul out an HD100 on rails with a bigass Mini35 on the front with whirling ground glass, and....

The same awe strikes when I walk into the studio and drop the card into the reader and open up Final Cut and Color and Motion and remember what it cost to run facilities that could do all of this just 10 years ago.

Same thing when I walk into my 64 track recording studio that I couldn't have even imagined 10 years ago when it was 24 tracks of tape, giant consoles and walls of processing, synths and samplers.

....where was I, oh yeah, but Mr. Hyde gets frustrated that I don't have 24p and 60p yet and that my camera still has an AGC circuit running.

I agree, professionally I would pay tomorrow for firmware that would give me 24p and over-crank capability let alone other enhancements. And I'm really not a patient guy either, or certainly never have been. But I think I'm becoming more so all the time, as I realize that I'm doing things creatively that weren't even on my radar a few years ago - and that's pretty unique in the history of creative stuff.

I don't even want to speculate about why it hasn't happened, whether it's a good or bad corporate decision or whatever. What I do know is that I was totally jazzed at the very concept of this camera when it was announced and was lucky enough to get one of the first deliveries. About 6 months and lot's of threads later Canon actually did what most said they wouldn't and delivered full manual control (remember the "old days" of full auto). Now just about a year after it's arrival we're looking at 2nd major pending upgrade. So I say, sooner would be nice, but boy do I like this basic paradigm.

Peer Landa · February 2nd, 2010, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Binder

I'd actually probably pay Canon $500 right now if they would give me an upgrade with 1080p24 and 720p60 tomorrow.

I'll up you -- if Canon, tomorrow, gave us 1080p24 and 720p60 along with disarming the AGC, I'd gladly pay $1000.

-- peer

January 29th, 2010, 02:43 PM	#151
Erik Andersen Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Vancouver Canada Posts: 218	I think it's worth noting that Canon has it's eye not just on short term profits but on building a long term camera line that is unified and professional. I don't think they like the 5D shooting 30.00 when the 7D and 1D are 23.98, 29.97 etc. It's much more than a money grab. __________________ Canon 5D Mark II \|\| L-Series Lenses \|\| Steadicam Pilot \|\| Final Cut Studio www.lovestorymedia.com

January 29th, 2010, 09:05 PM	#153
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	We're all welcome to our opinions. I'm sure someone from Canon has read yours and read mine. And although they certainly do take customer feedback to heart as they shape their future product lines, my opinion is that all the handwringing in this thread is not going to change their firmware release date by one second. This same "Canon is losing money" theme was repeated in http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eo...7d-owners.html...I was going to move those cross-posts to this thread, but as deeply embedded in the conversation as they are, it's too much hassle. If there are publically available facts on Canon's financial situation that bear on the firmware's release, please put them in this thread. FWIW, I disagree with a couple more of Bill's assumptions as well. You don't need to drop thousands on new L glass to do DSLR video; there are a number of threads about finding economical glass for video. As I build my collection, it'll be primarily Canon L lenses, but that's to get the most out of the 21MP of still imagery. So I don't buy the L glass argument. Not that it matters, as none of us have any facts to base our assumptions of what works for Canon's balance sheets; the appropriate Canon offices obviously DO. A camera being in stock at major vendors doesn't reflect, in and of itself, a whole bunch about sales volume or manufacturing capacity. The workings of any given supply chain has got to be as veiled to us consumers as the release schedule for firmware! Heck, the 5DmII still had spotty availability at big places like B&H last April when I just happened to browsing in my local Fry's and they had three in stock. I had already decided NOT to buy one at that time but there it was, so I went home with one. (Apologies to DVinfo sponsors!). If the first half of 2010 passes without further word, then I'll join y'all in whining. Especially if it doesn't have 60p (which they haven't promised but I want!). ;-) __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

January 31st, 2010, 12:54 AM	#161
Erik Andersen Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Vancouver Canada Posts: 218	David, you're right, it would be so much better if cameras stopped improving. I'm still hanging on to my Canon 814 XL-S Super 8 camera, waiting for just the right perfect all-encompassing Jesus camera (that costs under $3,000) to hit the stores. It's pretty frustrating. Same goes for my cassette walkman with giant headphones. __________________ Canon 5D Mark II \|\| L-Series Lenses \|\| Steadicam Pilot \|\| Final Cut Studio www.lovestorymedia.com

February 2nd, 2010, 04:45 PM	#163
Bill Binder Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: San Francisco Posts: 542	I'd actually probably pay Canon $500 right now if they would give me an upgrade with 1080p24 and 720p60 tomorrow. Being able to shoot 24p in FF with the option of conforming 30p and 60p back to 24p for slow mo would easily be worth it. I'm literally going to cry if there's no 60p on the 5D2 because I don't really want a 7D... Ugh, the wait is killing me, patience is not one of my strong points as you can tell, heh. __________________ BayTaper.com \| One man's multimedia journey through the San Francisco live jazz and creative music scene.

January 30th, 2010, 01:54 PM	#154
Billy Griffin Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Enumclaw, WA Posts: 58	My feeling is that Canon will NOT offer a firmware upgrade afterall. Perhaps they spoke out before realizing the camera could not accomodate such an upgrade? Nevertheless, I have given up hope on ever getting those frame rates we want. Thanks, Canon. Thanks alot! (sigh)

January 30th, 2010, 11:21 PM	#160
David Chilson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Walworth, NY Posts: 292	I have been holding off purchasing the camera because of this update, but I know the date. It will be exactly one day past the time I have to return whatever it was I purchased. Not only that it will be called the 5D Mark IIs and it will have new whiz bang features that you are nobody if you don't have, and I won't. And as a final kick in the pants I won't be able to sell what I just bought for 50 cents on the dollar because nobody wants what you bought, they want the camera you don't have, just like you. And I now have to keep this camera until I save up enough money to buy the next camera which will also be one model short of having the features I really need.

February 2nd, 2010, 07:04 PM	#164
Jim Giberti Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bethel, VT Posts: 824	Honestly, I'm like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde with Canon and the new technologies in general. Half the time I'm just in awe that I can grab a little DSLR with a beautiful HD screen choose the right 35mm AF lens, compose, zoom, quick focus and "film" directly to a tiny CF card. I mean it was only yesterday that I had to haul out an HD100 on rails with a bigass Mini35 on the front with whirling ground glass, and.... The same awe strikes when I walk into the studio and drop the card into the reader and open up Final Cut and Color and Motion and remember what it cost to run facilities that could do all of this just 10 years ago. Same thing when I walk into my 64 track recording studio that I couldn't have even imagined 10 years ago when it was 24 tracks of tape, giant consoles and walls of processing, synths and samplers. ....where was I, oh yeah, but Mr. Hyde gets frustrated that I don't have 24p and 60p yet and that my camera still has an AGC circuit running. I agree, professionally I would pay tomorrow for firmware that would give me 24p and over-crank capability let alone other enhancements. And I'm really not a patient guy either, or certainly never have been. But I think I'm becoming more so all the time, as I realize that I'm doing things creatively that weren't even on my radar a few years ago - and that's pretty unique in the history of creative stuff. I don't even want to speculate about why it hasn't happened, whether it's a good or bad corporate decision or whatever. What I do know is that I was totally jazzed at the very concept of this camera when it was announced and was lucky enough to get one of the first deliveries. About 6 months and lot's of threads later Canon actually did what most said they wouldn't and delivered full manual control (remember the "old days" of full auto). Now just about a year after it's arrival we're looking at 2nd major pending upgrade. So I say, sooner would be nice, but boy do I like this basic paradigm.