Cineform vs. ProRes at DVinfo.net

Geoff Brandon · September 11th, 2009, 09:54 AM

I apologize if this has been covered before. I tried the search function on here but it didn't yield any results that pertained to my question.

My previous workflow was:
shoot to tape (HDV format)-->convert to cineform's NeoHD avi---> edit in vegas.

Now im shooting on a 5D II, --> rewrap .mov file in cineform using Neo HD--> edit in FCP.

Recently , I attended a one week training course on FCP and we compared cineforms NEO HD to apples ProRes. The 4 of us in the class all agreed the ProRes looked slghtly better. Comparing frames, the one in ProRes had less jaggies in the picture than the cineform one.

The question I have is, is this the consensus among users here as well?

If so, now that I have switched to FCP, should I just use ProRes and get rid of Neo HD? I cant see any advantage to keeping Neo HD, especially since I use color with FCP instead of first light with Neo HD.

Lastly, can I legally sell my copy I purchased of Neo HD and transfer the serial number to the new owner?

Mark Holmes · September 11th, 2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff Brandon

I apologize if this has been covered before. I tried the search function on here but it didn't yield any results that pertained to my question.

My previous workflow was:
shoot to tape (HDV format)-->convert to cineform's NeoHD avi---> edit in vegas.

Now im shooting on a 5D II, --> rewrap .mov file in cineform using Neo HD--> edit in FCP.

Recently , I attended a one week training course on FCP and we compared cineforms NEO HD to apples ProRes. The 4 of us in the class all agreed the ProRes looked slghtly better. Comparing frames, the one in ProRes had less jaggies in the picture than the cineform one.

The question I have is, is this the consensus among users here as well?

If so, now that I have switched to FCP, should I just use ProRes and get rid of Neo HD? I cant see any advantage to keeping Neo HD, especially since I use color with FCP instead of first light with Neo HD.

Lastly, can I legally sell my copy I purchased of Neo HD and transfer the serial number to the new owner?

I just made the exact same switch. I am only using ProRes now. The quality seems slightly better, but I'm mostly using ProRes because it just seems to make sense to keep my entire workflow within the Apple pipeline. ProRes, I believe, also comes in more flavors from LT to 4:4:4:4, at least in FCP 7.

Billy Griffin · September 11th, 2009, 04:58 PM

Is this what you would recommend for a 'newbie' working in the following workflow...

1. Capture on 5D MkII

2. Convert raw .MOV files to .AVI with NeoHD (would you recommend NeoHD or ProRes?)
*is this the recommended process for converting the raw files off of the 5D II?

3. Edit with Sony Vegas Pro 9.0

4. Render final product (whatever format client desires) using Sony Vegas Pro 9.0

????? Advice / Recommendations ?????

Instead of using NeoScene, should I be using NeoHD?

Thanks in advance !!!

Mark Holmes · September 11th, 2009, 05:39 PM

Assuming you have to work in Vegas and not FCP, NeoScene is fine, no need for Neo HD.

Ray Bell · September 11th, 2009, 07:04 PM

One thing that Cineform doesn't do a good job of is to communicate to people that Cineform is a baseline product that takes compressed footage and converts it to a wavelet format and that Cineform offers added options that enhance the Cineform baseline product.

Options like, scaling footage, 24P pulldown, conversion choice of MOV or AVI, color grading
4.4.4 10bit conversion and more... you just have to determine what options are important
to your work flow and purchase the product you need...

I've never worked with Pro Res and cannot comment on it...

I do know that the footage coming out of Cineform looks very good and is very easy to
edit with.

Billy Griffin · September 11th, 2009, 07:50 PM

I'm trying the NeoHD software right now, and one thing I note; I don't see an option for converting 30p to 29.97 NTSC standard fps.

Is this something it does automatically, or rather, should I just worry about the frame rate once finished editing in Vegas Pro 9.0 ???

I do not have an option of going to FCP right now, so I am left with working in Vegas software only. I'm very comfortable with Vegas, and since I don't plan on producing any feature films anytime soon, all I need are the 'basics.'

So the consensus is that I don't need NeoHD? Just stick with Neoscene and convert all H.264 .MOV raw files out of the camera to .AVI with the Neoscene software?

And as this thread author wrote, is Neoscene better than Prores?

Don Miller · September 11th, 2009, 08:01 PM

The OP said he had switched to FCP
Billy, better to start a new thread with a new topic

Jon Fairhurst · September 11th, 2009, 10:10 PM

Billy, NeoScene does everything you need for standard editing in Vegas. It automatically slows video to 29.97fps without dropping frames, and slows the audio to match. If you want to match external audio, you will need to slow it by 0.1%.

Is ProRes better? I don't know, as I don't have FinalCut. As a Vegas user, ProRes isn't really an option, and NeoScene looks great to me.

September 11th, 2009, 09:54 AM	#1
Geoff Brandon Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Eureka, Ca Posts: 29	Cineform vs. ProRes I apologize if this has been covered before. I tried the search function on here but it didn't yield any results that pertained to my question. My previous workflow was: shoot to tape (HDV format)-->convert to cineform's NeoHD avi---> edit in vegas. Now im shooting on a 5D II, --> rewrap .mov file in cineform using Neo HD--> edit in FCP. Recently , I attended a one week training course on FCP and we compared cineforms NEO HD to apples ProRes. The 4 of us in the class all agreed the ProRes looked slghtly better. Comparing frames, the one in ProRes had less jaggies in the picture than the cineform one. The question I have is, is this the consensus among users here as well? If so, now that I have switched to FCP, should I just use ProRes and get rid of Neo HD? I cant see any advantage to keeping Neo HD, especially since I use color with FCP instead of first light with Neo HD. Lastly, can I legally sell my copy I purchased of Neo HD and transfer the serial number to the new owner?

September 11th, 2009, 05:39 PM	#4
Mark Holmes Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 119	Assuming you have to work in Vegas and not FCP, NeoScene is fine, no need for Neo HD. __________________ Mark Holmes www.daisy3pictures.com

September 11th, 2009, 10:10 PM	#8
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Billy, NeoScene does everything you need for standard editing in Vegas. It automatically slows video to 29.97fps without dropping frames, and slows the audio to match. If you want to match external audio, you will need to slow it by 0.1%. Is ProRes better? I don't know, as I don't have FinalCut. As a Vegas user, ProRes isn't really an option, and NeoScene looks great to me. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

September 11th, 2009, 04:58 PM	#3
Billy Griffin Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Enumclaw, WA Posts: 58	Is this what you would recommend for a 'newbie' working in the following workflow... 1. Capture on 5D MkII 2. Convert raw .MOV files to .AVI with NeoHD (would you recommend NeoHD or ProRes?) *is this the recommended process for converting the raw files off of the 5D II? 3. Edit with Sony Vegas Pro 9.0 4. Render final product (whatever format client desires) using Sony Vegas Pro 9.0 ????? Advice / Recommendations ????? Instead of using NeoScene, should I be using NeoHD? Thanks in advance !!!

September 11th, 2009, 07:04 PM	#5
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	One thing that Cineform doesn't do a good job of is to communicate to people that Cineform is a baseline product that takes compressed footage and converts it to a wavelet format and that Cineform offers added options that enhance the Cineform baseline product. Options like, scaling footage, 24P pulldown, conversion choice of MOV or AVI, color grading 4.4.4 10bit conversion and more... you just have to determine what options are important to your work flow and purchase the product you need... I've never worked with Pro Res and cannot comment on it... I do know that the footage coming out of Cineform looks very good and is very easy to edit with.

September 11th, 2009, 07:50 PM	#6
Billy Griffin Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Enumclaw, WA Posts: 58	I'm trying the NeoHD software right now, and one thing I note; I don't see an option for converting 30p to 29.97 NTSC standard fps. Is this something it does automatically, or rather, should I just worry about the frame rate once finished editing in Vegas Pro 9.0 ??? I do not have an option of going to FCP right now, so I am left with working in Vegas software only. I'm very comfortable with Vegas, and since I don't plan on producing any feature films anytime soon, all I need are the 'basics.' So the consensus is that I don't need NeoHD? Just stick with Neoscene and convert all H.264 .MOV raw files out of the camera to .AVI with the Neoscene software? And as this thread author wrote, is Neoscene better than Prores?

September 11th, 2009, 08:01 PM	#7
Don Miller Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 706	The OP said he had switched to FCP Billy, better to start a new thread with a new topic