24/25/30 on the 5D Mark II? Should I dare hope? at DVinfo.net

Nick Csakany · August 31st, 2009, 01:48 PM

It's rumored that the new Canon 7D will have 24/25/30. I really hope a firmware update will implement these modes on the 5D2 as well. I know I could use 24 on mine!

24/25/30 fps at 1080p
50/60 fps at 720p
external mic
full manual controls
in-camera editing options
HDMI out

Canon EOS 7D HD Video Specifications | neutralday

Nick

Jon Fairhurst · August 31st, 2009, 03:10 PM

If true (24/25/30, 1080p/720p/SD, manual control), I would certainly buy a 7D over a 5D, all else being equal but the price. I'd rather have a crop sensor at 24/25/30p than a FF sensor at 30p only.

Hollywood films are generally shot on Super35, which is roughly the same as delivered by a crop sensor.

In order to preserve 5D sales to videophiles (especially in Europe), Canon will have no choice but to offer 24/25p.

It's too early to pop the champagne, but not too early to put it on ice... :)

Phil Bloom · August 31st, 2009, 03:18 PM

this possibility has upset a lot of people...

Philip Bloom Blog Archive Someone’s not happy about the release of the Canon 7d!

Xavier Plagaro · August 31st, 2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

It's too early to pop the champagne, but not too early to put it on ice... :)

;-DDD

Let's really hope rumors are true and the new 7D is usefull as a video recording device worldwide, not only NTSCwide...

Chris Hurd · August 31st, 2009, 03:23 PM

Ack... that particular scene from Downfall has been done over with every last recent camera / computer / movie release that watching it is starting to feel like getting RickRolled. Sorry Phil, it was funny the first time somebody did that (whoever and whenever it was, so long ago it seems), but these days... stick a fork in it; it's done.

Bruno Ganz should get royalties every time one of these pops up, they're so ubiquitous these days!

Nick Csakany · August 31st, 2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

If true (24/25/30, 1080p/720p/SD, manual control), I would certainly buy a 7D over a 5D, all else being equal but the price. I'd rather have a crop sensor at 24/25/30p than a FF sensor at 30p only.

Hollywood films are generally shot on Super35, which is roughly the same as delivered by a crop sensor.

I guess it works like a charm for you then, but as far as I'm concerned I'll stick with the FF sensor; I just can't get enough of that razor-thin DOF for some reason, though at times I miss the reach of my Sony EX1.

Cheers,
Nick

Raymond Tsang · August 31st, 2009, 04:57 PM

Probably a stupid question but would shooting video from a cropped DSLR sensor result in degraded/lower quality versus a FF sensor (i.e. mkii)?

Nick Csakany · August 31st, 2009, 05:02 PM

Raymond,

The quality should be the same. This is more about DOF and lens reach than picture quality.

Nick

Chris Hurd · August 31st, 2009, 05:02 PM

I seriously doubt it, Raymond. It has to be knocked down to 1920 x 1080 anyway, so why should it matter what size chip it comes from... the 5D Mk. II throws away a lot of information to create a 2MP 1920 x 1080 image from a 21 MP sensor.

It'll affect depth of field, but not the image quality itself, in my opinion.

Bill Binder · August 31st, 2009, 05:12 PM

For the photographers out there, like me, who shoot a little video on the side, nothing will replace a FF, not just for the DOF action but also for the FOV, especially on the wide end. That said, some photogs might want the reach of a 1.6x crop, but I'd rather have the wide end any day personally (plus, although not the same, at 21 mp, I can do a lot of cropping in post on stills, heh). But to each his own.

All I can say is they BETTER port over the 24/25p and 720p stuff to the 5D2 dammit! It'd be safe to say that I'd shoot 720p24 all the time if I had the option.

Raymond Tsang · August 31st, 2009, 05:22 PM

Nick and Chris - Thanks for the info. Now that I think about it, it makes complete sense.

I guess my only other question is regarding high-ISO performance on the 7D versus the 5D. But only real world tests can provide an answer to that when it comes to video recording.

I used to shoot with a Nikon 300 and definitely miss the extra reach of that camera.

Chris Barcellos · August 31st, 2009, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

this possibility has upset a lot of people...

Philip Bloom Blog Archive Someone’s not happy about the release of the Canon 7d!

My gut is splitting on this one Phil.... a new debate about to start. 30P is better than 24p. We need Obama and Arnie Schwartzenager here in the States to make a joint communique, and all will be good..

Daniel Browning · August 31st, 2009, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond Tsang

I guess my only other question is regarding high-ISO performance on the 7D versus the 5D. But only real world tests can provide an answer to that when it comes to video recording.

The 5D2 will blow it out of the water. No testing necessary.

When you use both cameras at the same angle of view and f-number, the lens is much bigger on the 5D2. Consider that 200mm f/2.8 on 7D and 300mm f/2.8 on 5D2 have (about) the same field of view. Yet one of them weighs 1 and a half pounds and costs $800, and the other weighs 6 pounds and costs $4,300! This is a clue pointing to the fact that the 5D2 can capture a far greater amount of light. No amount of technology improvement will allow the 7D to capture that much light. However, it is technically possible for Canon to have reduced the read noise (especially pattern noise) to a point where it looks better at high ISO, even though it has less light. I hope for that much improvement, but I highly doubt it. It's far more likely that it will have lower performance in low light than the 5D2.

For me, the real question is: Did Canon reduce the aliasing or improve the resolution?

Xavier Plagaro · September 1st, 2009, 12:18 AM

They also put to Digic processors, it permits more pixel-massaging before baking it to AVCHD...

Roberto Lanczos · September 1st, 2009, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Philip Bloom Blog Archive Someone’s not happy about the release of the Canon 7d!

Best script ever.
wonderfull jop capturing the inner frustration of the 5d owners.

every single word perfectly matched my deepest feelings.
decided to go the 5d+Shake route just 4 days ago, and now this?

i wanna shot my self in the face.

i've come to the conclusion that this is not about whether 24p is possible or not in the 5D.
i think canon is really making fun of us. this is clearly an insult. a slap in the face.
But that's the marketing game.... that's the way it is.
more money... what the hell.

August 31st, 2009, 01:48 PM	#1
Nick Csakany Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Lake Worth, FL Posts: 28	24/25/30 on the 5D Mark II? Should I dare hope? It's rumored that the new Canon 7D will have 24/25/30. I really hope a firmware update will implement these modes on the 5D2 as well. I know I could use 24 on mine! 24/25/30 fps at 1080p 50/60 fps at 720p external mic full manual controls in-camera editing options HDMI out Canon EOS 7D HD Video Specifications \| neutralday Nick

August 31st, 2009, 03:10 PM	#2
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	If true (24/25/30, 1080p/720p/SD, manual control), I would certainly buy a 7D over a 5D, all else being equal but the price. I'd rather have a crop sensor at 24/25/30p than a FF sensor at 30p only. Hollywood films are generally shot on Super35, which is roughly the same as delivered by a crop sensor. In order to preserve 5D sales to videophiles (especially in Europe), Canon will have no choice but to offer 24/25p. It's too early to pop the champagne, but not too early to put it on ice... :) __________________ Jon Fairhurst

August 31st, 2009, 03:18 PM	#3
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	this possibility has upset a lot of people... Philip Bloom Blog Archive Someone’s not happy about the release of the Canon 7d! __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

August 31st, 2009, 03:23 PM	#5
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Ack... that particular scene from Downfall has been done over with every last recent camera / computer / movie release that watching it is starting to feel like getting RickRolled. Sorry Phil, it was funny the first time somebody did that (whoever and whenever it was, so long ago it seems), but these days... stick a fork in it; it's done. Bruno Ganz should get royalties every time one of these pops up, they're so ubiquitous these days! __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 31st, 2009, 05:02 PM	#9
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	I seriously doubt it, Raymond. It has to be knocked down to 1920 x 1080 anyway, so why should it matter what size chip it comes from... the 5D Mk. II throws away a lot of information to create a 2MP 1920 x 1080 image from a 21 MP sensor. It'll affect depth of field, but not the image quality itself, in my opinion. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 31st, 2009, 04:57 PM	#7
Raymond Tsang Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: san francisco, ca Posts: 90	Probably a stupid question but would shooting video from a cropped DSLR sensor result in degraded/lower quality versus a FF sensor (i.e. mkii)?

August 31st, 2009, 05:12 PM	#10
Bill Binder Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: San Francisco Posts: 542	For the photographers out there, like me, who shoot a little video on the side, nothing will replace a FF, not just for the DOF action but also for the FOV, especially on the wide end. That said, some photogs might want the reach of a 1.6x crop, but I'd rather have the wide end any day personally (plus, although not the same, at 21 mp, I can do a lot of cropping in post on stills, heh). But to each his own. All I can say is they BETTER port over the 24/25p and 720p stuff to the 5D2 dammit! It'd be safe to say that I'd shoot 720p24 all the time if I had the option.

August 31st, 2009, 05:22 PM	#11
Raymond Tsang Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: san francisco, ca Posts: 90	Nick and Chris - Thanks for the info. Now that I think about it, it makes complete sense. I guess my only other question is regarding high-ISO performance on the 7D versus the 5D. But only real world tests can provide an answer to that when it comes to video recording. I used to shoot with a Nikon 300 and definitely miss the extra reach of that camera.

September 1st, 2009, 12:18 AM	#14
Xavier Plagaro Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Rome, Italy Posts: 90	They also put to Digic processors, it permits more pixel-massaging before baking it to AVCHD...