Mixing 5D with XHA1 at DVinfo.net

Anthony Martin · August 27th, 2009, 08:14 PM

Can someone suggest how to render A1 video mixed with 5D? I am shooting with the A1 in 30f and encode my 5D files with neoscene. I am guessing I should have to stay progressive? Interlaced. upper field first? 1920 x 1080? 1440 x1080? I have been trying to render two projects for almost 2 weeks unsuccessfully in Vegas. Any advice would be appreciated.

Ken Diewert · August 27th, 2009, 11:11 PM

Anthony,

I've been mixing XLH1, HV30 and 5d2 footage together using Neoscene to Vegas 8.0c with no problems. I shoot strictly 60i on the HDV cameras though. The project properties I use are:

I use the HDV 1080-60i template (1440x1080, 29.97 fps) which defaults at Upper field first and PAR of 1.333, Blend Fields. I use 8-bit pixel format - I tried 32-bit floating point but it didn't work for me.

I render to 1440x1080 .avi and resize using VirtualDub to 720x405 for SD-DVD and to Mpg4 1280x720 for Vimeo/Youtube.

This is probably more of a Vegas thing than a 5d thing. (Oh, I was just over at the Vegas Forum and see you've been trying to resolve it over there).

I'm thinking it MAY be an issue with the 30f as opposed to 60i. Also, Vegas 8.0c seems a hell of a lot more stable the V9.

I would suggest (just a suggestion) try shooting some 60i footage and dropping it into an HDV timeline with your converted files from the 5d. There's absolutely no reason that it shouldn't work... Hell, I've been doing it. If that works then at least you can begin to isolate the problem.

Ken Diewert · August 28th, 2009, 12:03 AM

Anthony, I just read your Vegas posts... Not sure why I didn't get involved over there. I thought you had it under control. And I just read your OP which said this is Wedding footage. Yikes!

Just a suggestion. Can you edit each source separately, and render as an .avi to 1440x180 - then they will be a common format and then you can bring them back into Vegas as .avi, that should play together nicely.

I just finished a wedding that mixed all 3 of my cameras (XLH1, HV30, and 5d2), in an HDV timeline - without problems - so the only variable in your case is the 30f as opposed to 60i.

This light test between the HV30 and the 5d2 was edited in a 1440x180 HDV timeline.

5Dmk2 vs HV30 low light test on Vimeo

Anthony Martin · August 28th, 2009, 07:47 AM

Thanks a lot Ken. I will try your suggestions today. I've bee shooting in 30f because I thought it would match better with the 5D footage. I'll keep you posted.

Anthony Martin · August 28th, 2009, 07:48 PM

Hey Ken,
Well I managed to squeak out a couple of renders in of the 5D & 30f rendered to 60i. I have a 20 minute project shot in 60i. That just won't happen. I can't get past 6% in Vegas 8C or 9b. Can you tell me what your pixel aspect ratio is on your 5D and A1 clips? Mine are 1.333 HDV 1080 for the A1 and 1.000 square for the 5D files is this right?

Ken Diewert · August 29th, 2009, 10:05 AM

Anthony,

You should forget about Vegas 9 altogether for now. See this thread.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/what-happ...hat-wrong.html

I would try editing the 5d footage in an HDV 1440x1080 PAR 1.333 template timeline in Vegas 8.0c. I've done it, it works.

Just to back up a bit. You are transferring the 5d footage from your camera or card reader, storing it on your hard drive and then converting the footage to avi using Neoscene?

Anthony Martin · August 29th, 2009, 02:35 PM

"Just to back up a bit. You are transferring the 5d footage from your camera or card reader, storing it on your hard drive and then converting the footage to avi using Neoscene?"

Yes, this is what I am doing. I also apply color correction and a color curve to the track. I read somewhere that this might be a problem. I am using a Quad core 9200 with 4gb RAM.

Ken Diewert · August 30th, 2009, 10:04 PM

Anthony,

The CC may slow it down a little but not cause crashes. You're using way more processing power than me. I'm running Vegas 8.0c on a dual core e6600 with 2gb of ram, so there is no way that you don't have enough horsepower to run Vegas 8. From what I've read, V9 won't well with that setup.

Richard Gooderick · September 1st, 2009, 04:16 AM

I don't know if this is any use to you. Here's how I did it in Liquid:

Test of 5D mark 2 and XH A1 on same timeline in Avid Liquid on Vimeo

Bill Grant · September 1st, 2009, 12:01 PM

Hey Anthony,
I have had color correction and color curves kill several renders with mixed A1 and 5dII footage. I have found that if I mix the cams and formats that I have to render without full track effects. That has solved my render issues.
this is mixed footage with no render issues...
This is a password protected video on Vimeo password is drbeth
Bill

Galen Rath · October 24th, 2009, 12:32 PM

Richard,

Your link about incorporating the 5D and XHA1 into an Avid Liquid timeline was deleted on 9/15, can you make that available again? Thanks.

August 27th, 2009, 08:14 PM	#1
Anthony Martin Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hauppauge, New York Posts: 49	Mixing 5D with XHA1 Can someone suggest how to render A1 video mixed with 5D? I am shooting with the A1 in 30f and encode my 5D files with neoscene. I am guessing I should have to stay progressive? Interlaced. upper field first? 1920 x 1080? 1440 x1080? I have been trying to render two projects for almost 2 weeks unsuccessfully in Vegas. Any advice would be appreciated.

August 27th, 2009, 11:11 PM	#2
Ken Diewert Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 1,200	Anthony, I've been mixing XLH1, HV30 and 5d2 footage together using Neoscene to Vegas 8.0c with no problems. I shoot strictly 60i on the HDV cameras though. The project properties I use are: I use the HDV 1080-60i template (1440x1080, 29.97 fps) which defaults at Upper field first and PAR of 1.333, Blend Fields. I use 8-bit pixel format - I tried 32-bit floating point but it didn't work for me. I render to 1440x1080 .avi and resize using VirtualDub to 720x405 for SD-DVD and to Mpg4 1280x720 for Vimeo/Youtube. This is probably more of a Vegas thing than a 5d thing. (Oh, I was just over at the Vegas Forum and see you've been trying to resolve it over there). I'm thinking it MAY be an issue with the 30f as opposed to 60i. Also, Vegas 8.0c seems a hell of a lot more stable the V9. I would suggest (just a suggestion) try shooting some 60i footage and dropping it into an HDV timeline with your converted files from the 5d. There's absolutely no reason that it shouldn't work... Hell, I've been doing it. If that works then at least you can begin to isolate the problem. __________________ C100, 5DMk2, FCPX Last edited by Ken Diewert; August 27th, 2009 at 11:48 PM.

August 28th, 2009, 12:03 AM	#3
Ken Diewert Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 1,200	Anthony, I just read your Vegas posts... Not sure why I didn't get involved over there. I thought you had it under control. And I just read your OP which said this is Wedding footage. Yikes! Just a suggestion. Can you edit each source separately, and render as an .avi to 1440x180 - then they will be a common format and then you can bring them back into Vegas as .avi, that should play together nicely. I just finished a wedding that mixed all 3 of my cameras (XLH1, HV30, and 5d2), in an HDV timeline - without problems - so the only variable in your case is the 30f as opposed to 60i. This light test between the HV30 and the 5d2 was edited in a 1440x180 HDV timeline. 5Dmk2 vs HV30 low light test on Vimeo __________________ C100, 5DMk2, FCPX

August 29th, 2009, 10:05 AM	#6
Ken Diewert Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 1,200	Anthony, You should forget about Vegas 9 altogether for now. See this thread. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/what-happ...hat-wrong.html I would try editing the 5d footage in an HDV 1440x1080 PAR 1.333 template timeline in Vegas 8.0c. I've done it, it works. Just to back up a bit. You are transferring the 5d footage from your camera or card reader, storing it on your hard drive and then converting the footage to avi using Neoscene? __________________ C100, 5DMk2, FCPX

August 30th, 2009, 10:04 PM	#8
Ken Diewert Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 1,200	Anthony, The CC may slow it down a little but not cause crashes. You're using way more processing power than me. I'm running Vegas 8.0c on a dual core e6600 with 2gb of ram, so there is no way that you don't have enough horsepower to run Vegas 8. From what I've read, V9 won't well with that setup. __________________ C100, 5DMk2, FCPX

August 28th, 2009, 07:47 AM	#4
Anthony Martin Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hauppauge, New York Posts: 49	Thanks a lot Ken. I will try your suggestions today. I've bee shooting in 30f because I thought it would match better with the 5D footage. I'll keep you posted.

August 28th, 2009, 07:48 PM	#5
Anthony Martin Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hauppauge, New York Posts: 49	Hey Ken, Well I managed to squeak out a couple of renders in of the 5D & 30f rendered to 60i. I have a 20 minute project shot in 60i. That just won't happen. I can't get past 6% in Vegas 8C or 9b. Can you tell me what your pixel aspect ratio is on your 5D and A1 clips? Mine are 1.333 HDV 1080 for the A1 and 1.000 square for the 5D files is this right?

August 29th, 2009, 02:35 PM	#7
Anthony Martin Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hauppauge, New York Posts: 49	"Just to back up a bit. You are transferring the 5d footage from your camera or card reader, storing it on your hard drive and then converting the footage to avi using Neoscene?" Yes, this is what I am doing. I also apply color correction and a color curve to the track. I read somewhere that this might be a problem. I am using a Quad core 9200 with 4gb RAM.

September 1st, 2009, 04:16 AM	#9
Richard Gooderick Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 795	I don't know if this is any use to you. Here's how I did it in Liquid: Test of 5D mark 2 and XH A1 on same timeline in Avid Liquid on Vimeo __________________ http://www.gooderick.com

September 1st, 2009, 12:01 PM	#10
Bill Grant Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Columbia,SC Posts: 806	Hey Anthony, I have had color correction and color curves kill several renders with mixed A1 and 5dII footage. I have found that if I mix the cams and formats that I have to render without full track effects. That has solved my render issues. this is mixed footage with no render issues... This is a password protected video on Vimeo password is drbeth Bill __________________ Cinema Couture www.cinemacouture.com

October 24th, 2009, 12:32 PM	#11
Galen Rath Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 323	Richard, Your link about incorporating the 5D and XHA1 into an Avid Liquid timeline was deleted on 9/15, can you make that available again? Thanks.