5D Mark II Audio Exposed Series Complete!!!

Robert Morane · August 7th, 2009, 03:46 PM

Great work John, very generous and useful. Thanks!

Brad Herbert · August 7th, 2009, 10:45 PM

Thanks for the hard work on lining up those audio solutions, and letting us hear the results - because of your testing I selected the H4n for the project I am shooting this weekend. I am sitting in a hotel room in NY right now waiting for Sunday to roll around. We are using two Mark II bodies with the H4n to do interviews of the new drafts coming into the NBA this year. The audio in my tests sounds super clear, and seems to sync fairly easy in post. I'll have to update you guys after the shoot.

Wish us luck!

-Brad

Bob Hart · August 8th, 2009, 01:34 AM

For what it is worth :-

30P origination slow-moed to 25P in a Premiere CS3 project, ie., extended, then exported yielded a smooth motion in 25P. Audio can be extended with pitch maintainerd to match but expect some aliases and artifacts. Better result from separate audio software than from stretching within the timeline.

Percentage numbers to work with were 8.333 and 120.

Alex Chong · August 8th, 2009, 05:33 AM

Have decided to go for the Juiced link and this tests by Jon has definitely made it a clear choice by miles. Thanks Jon for the wonderful works.

Brian Luce · August 8th, 2009, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

Bill,

BTW, the beer helped the "talent" get more comfortable on camera. ;)

LOL! Talent *did* look a bit nervous. More beer next time!

Great videos though.

Your wife's link is dead.

Jon Fairhurst · August 9th, 2009, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Luce

LOL! Talent *did* look a bit nervous. More beer next time!

Maybe my next review should use something stronger. I wonder what kind of mic is best for gin and tonic?

Quote:

Your wife's link is dead.

One of her domains has had inexplicable DNS problems for months. The host and DNS service both claim everything is fine, but it only works from some networks.

BTW, her book got a new review yesterday, and it's excellent!
Book Review: The Saint and the Fasting Girl | The Inspiratorium

Kevin Dooley · August 12th, 2009, 10:05 AM

I don't want to be the guy defending his purchase in light of clear facts pointing out other gear is better... but it seemed to me (from what I heard) that the MicroTrack sounded better on the dialogue than the Zoom when correct mic placement was used - ie: the close shotgun and the lavalier. I probably wouldn't be concerned about recording foley into the camera or one of these portable units, as I'd do that in our recording studio into my laptop.

Am I wrong in this assessment?

Obviously for ease of use it seems that the JuicedLink with ML firmware is the way to go - but it doesn't seem like in your tests (and from what I've heard from our shoots) that the MicroTrack is all that noisy with good mic placement.

Jon Fairhurst · August 12th, 2009, 11:51 AM

Well, noise is relative. With a strong signal, the MicroTrack II does fine, but if you ever have to boost things in post, it's really noisy. It also has a strange repeating noise pattern that you can hear at high gain.

I bought mine in January, and we filmed a short film with it in February and March that we submitted to the Seattle International Film Festival. (We didn't get in - there were 150 spots and over 3,000 submissions.) Our mic isn't as hot as the borrowed ME80, and with medium shots, we couldn't get the mic as close as I had it in the video (about six inches over my head.)

I wasn't the sound guy, but I did all of the composing and audio post work. I set up my system (with large 15" monitors) for mixing for a theater. The noise was not acceptable on *any* clip or take. I ended up applying custom noise reduction to every single clip of audio. Fortunately, SF9 was able to do a good job, without too much of an underwater sound. It was the most effective when we had just dialog and hiss, and least effective when there was traffic or other noise in the signal.

I've also tested the MicroTrack II with the juicedLink as a front end. The results are MUCH better, and you get XLR inputs and real analog gain controls.

One of the design flaws (aside from no way to mount the thing and a captive battery) is that the MicroTrack II gain controls are digital. Reduce the gain, and the signal clips before full scale. Increase the gain, and you just boost the noise and reduce dynamic range. The device really needs a preamp or mixer upstream, which defeats the whole purpose of having phantom power on board. One might as well buy a cheaper digital recorder with a 1/8" input, since you need a juicedLink or some other active preamp/mixer anyway.

It cracks me up that the MicroTrack II can record 24-bit audio. With it's noise level, it doesn't come close to 16-bits.

BTW, I also do foley recording in the studio whenever possible. But sometimes you want to record a stream, the surf, birds, or the murmur of a crowd, or some other thing that requires field recording. Having a dead silent noise floor makes it easy to get good results without any fuss in post.

Anyway, I can't recommend the MicroTrack II for a new purchase, even though I bought and own one. If you already have one, I strongly recommend using it with a mixer/preamp to help tame the noise and provide a usable gain control. Leave the Microtrack II gain at 50% and never touch it again. I also recommend applying sticky-back Velcro for mounting purposes. It ships with a belt-loop carrying case, but the case doesn't provide access to the controls or I/O. Heck, it doesn't even have built-in mics for recording lectures and such. (It ships with a stereo, plug-in, electret mic - that doesn't fit in the carrying case.)

Aside from the larger size and slightly higher price, the Zoom H4n beats the MicroTrack II feature after feature. I only borrowed the Zoom for one day (thanks Brian!), and was really impressed. For it, the phantom power feature is actually useful.

Kevin Dooley · August 12th, 2009, 01:18 PM

Thanks for the reply - that is very good information to have. Unfortunately there are times when purchases are made around here in the "Ready, Shoot, Aim" mode and then we wind up with gear that isn't quite what we need... Now to try and talk the powers that be into a juicedlink...

Jon Fairhurst · August 12th, 2009, 03:08 PM

I know what you mean about equipment purchases - especially if a committee (or a hierarchy) is involved!

I bought the Microtrack II because of the balanced inputs and phantom power. It was between that and the original H4. The deciding factor was that one showed up locally on Craigslist with all the parts and the box in perfect condition for $140. :)

Given that we have the juicedLink, I'll keep the Microtrack II for now to use with the preamp for when we need to go untethered. For the 48-hour film project this weekend, we plan on recording into the camera as much as possible. Besides the better sound quality, not having to sync saves precious time!

Chris Barcellos · August 12th, 2009, 03:53 PM

Hey Jon, good luck on the 48 hour... I would probably been doing the same thing this weekend except for my health deal.... I have doen San Jose on this weekend last two years.

Bill Pryor · September 21st, 2009, 07:35 PM

Hey, John...have you checked out the Tascam DR-100 compared to the H4N?

Jon Fairhurst · September 21st, 2009, 09:51 PM

Unfortunately, I haven't had my hands on a Tascam recorder outside NAB. I used to have a contact there. It would have been way cool to compare it to the H4n.

Peer Landa · September 22nd, 2009, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

I've finally completed the series on 5D Mark II audio

Jon, as I've told you a few times before -- I always admire your insight & knowledge, and appreciate that you take the time to share it all with us. Though, in the case of this audio thread, I blush to confess that I haven't yet read it due to time constrains -- since I'm an on/off reader & poster on this forum, the interesting threads that grow too large for me get bookmarked for a rainy day. But the little I've skimmed over looks like very valuable info, hence, I can't wait for the rainy season to start. [Chris, I suggest that you change Jon's status to 'Wizard Status']

-- peer

Jon Fairhurst · September 22nd, 2009, 10:27 AM

Thanks Peer!

Rather than read, watch and listen! Here are the links...
1. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - Boom Mic (juicedLink, Zoom H4n, Microtrack II, BeachTek) on Vimeo
2. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - On Camera (juicedLink, Zoom H4n, Microtrack II, BeachTek) on Vimeo
3. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - Wireless Lav on Vimeo
4. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - Foley on Vimeo
5. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - Noise on Vimeo
6. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - Conclusions on Vimeo

August 7th, 2009, 03:46 PM	#16
Robert Morane Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 267	Great work John, very generous and useful. Thanks! __________________ Measure twice, cut once!

August 7th, 2009, 10:45 PM	#17
Brad Herbert New Boot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 20	Using H4n because of your review Thanks for the hard work on lining up those audio solutions, and letting us hear the results - because of your testing I selected the H4n for the project I am shooting this weekend. I am sitting in a hotel room in NY right now waiting for Sunday to roll around. We are using two Mark II bodies with the H4n to do interviews of the new drafts coming into the NBA this year. The audio in my tests sounds super clear, and seems to sync fairly easy in post. I'll have to update you guys after the shoot. Wish us luck! -Brad

August 12th, 2009, 10:05 AM	#22
Kevin Dooley Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 414	I don't want to be the guy defending his purchase in light of clear facts pointing out other gear is better... but it seemed to me (from what I heard) that the MicroTrack sounded better on the dialogue than the Zoom when correct mic placement was used - ie: the close shotgun and the lavalier. I probably wouldn't be concerned about recording foley into the camera or one of these portable units, as I'd do that in our recording studio into my laptop. Am I wrong in this assessment? Obviously for ease of use it seems that the JuicedLink with ML firmware is the way to go - but it doesn't seem like in your tests (and from what I've heard from our shoots) that the MicroTrack is all that noisy with good mic placement. __________________ Kevin Dooley Media Director, Pantego Bible Church

August 12th, 2009, 11:51 AM	#23
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Well, noise is relative. With a strong signal, the MicroTrack II does fine, but if you ever have to boost things in post, it's really noisy. It also has a strange repeating noise pattern that you can hear at high gain. I bought mine in January, and we filmed a short film with it in February and March that we submitted to the Seattle International Film Festival. (We didn't get in - there were 150 spots and over 3,000 submissions.) Our mic isn't as hot as the borrowed ME80, and with medium shots, we couldn't get the mic as close as I had it in the video (about six inches over my head.) I wasn't the sound guy, but I did all of the composing and audio post work. I set up my system (with large 15" monitors) for mixing for a theater. The noise was not acceptable on any clip or take. I ended up applying custom noise reduction to every single clip of audio. Fortunately, SF9 was able to do a good job, without too much of an underwater sound. It was the most effective when we had just dialog and hiss, and least effective when there was traffic or other noise in the signal. I've also tested the MicroTrack II with the juicedLink as a front end. The results are MUCH better, and you get XLR inputs and real analog gain controls. One of the design flaws (aside from no way to mount the thing and a captive battery) is that the MicroTrack II gain controls are digital. Reduce the gain, and the signal clips before full scale. Increase the gain, and you just boost the noise and reduce dynamic range. The device really needs a preamp or mixer upstream, which defeats the whole purpose of having phantom power on board. One might as well buy a cheaper digital recorder with a 1/8" input, since you need a juicedLink or some other active preamp/mixer anyway. It cracks me up that the MicroTrack II can record 24-bit audio. With it's noise level, it doesn't come close to 16-bits. BTW, I also do foley recording in the studio whenever possible. But sometimes you want to record a stream, the surf, birds, or the murmur of a crowd, or some other thing that requires field recording. Having a dead silent noise floor makes it easy to get good results without any fuss in post. Anyway, I can't recommend the MicroTrack II for a new purchase, even though I bought and own one. If you already have one, I strongly recommend using it with a mixer/preamp to help tame the noise and provide a usable gain control. Leave the Microtrack II gain at 50% and never touch it again. I also recommend applying sticky-back Velcro for mounting purposes. It ships with a belt-loop carrying case, but the case doesn't provide access to the controls or I/O. Heck, it doesn't even have built-in mics for recording lectures and such. (It ships with a stereo, plug-in, electret mic - that doesn't fit in the carrying case.) Aside from the larger size and slightly higher price, the Zoom H4n beats the MicroTrack II feature after feature. I only borrowed the Zoom for one day (thanks Brian!), and was really impressed. For it, the phantom power feature is actually useful. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

August 12th, 2009, 01:18 PM	#24
Kevin Dooley Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 414	Thanks for the reply - that is very good information to have. Unfortunately there are times when purchases are made around here in the "Ready, Shoot, Aim" mode and then we wind up with gear that isn't quite what we need... Now to try and talk the powers that be into a juicedlink... __________________ Kevin Dooley Media Director, Pantego Bible Church

August 8th, 2009, 01:34 AM	#18
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	For what it is worth :- 30P origination slow-moed to 25P in a Premiere CS3 project, ie., extended, then exported yielded a smooth motion in 25P. Audio can be extended with pitch maintainerd to match but expect some aliases and artifacts. Better result from separate audio software than from stretching within the timeline. Percentage numbers to work with were 8.333 and 120.

August 8th, 2009, 05:33 AM	#19
Alex Chong Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Brunei Posts: 140	Have decided to go for the Juiced link and this tests by Jon has definitely made it a clear choice by miles. Thanks Jon for the wonderful works.

August 12th, 2009, 03:08 PM	#25
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	I know what you mean about equipment purchases - especially if a committee (or a hierarchy) is involved! I bought the Microtrack II because of the balanced inputs and phantom power. It was between that and the original H4. The deciding factor was that one showed up locally on Craigslist with all the parts and the box in perfect condition for $140. :) Given that we have the juicedLink, I'll keep the Microtrack II for now to use with the preamp for when we need to go untethered. For the 48-hour film project this weekend, we plan on recording into the camera as much as possible. Besides the better sound quality, not having to sync saves precious time! __________________ Jon Fairhurst

August 12th, 2009, 03:53 PM	#26
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Hey Jon, good luck on the 48 hour... I would probably been doing the same thing this weekend except for my health deal.... I have doen San Jose on this weekend last two years. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

September 21st, 2009, 07:35 PM	#27
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Hey, John...have you checked out the Tascam DR-100 compared to the H4N?

September 21st, 2009, 09:51 PM	#28
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Unfortunately, I haven't had my hands on a Tascam recorder outside NAB. I used to have a contact there. It would have been way cool to compare it to the H4n. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

September 22nd, 2009, 10:27 AM	#30
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Thanks Peer! Rather than read, watch and listen! Here are the links... 1. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - Boom Mic (juicedLink, Zoom H4n, Microtrack II, BeachTek) on Vimeo 2. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - On Camera (juicedLink, Zoom H4n, Microtrack II, BeachTek) on Vimeo 3. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - Wireless Lav on Vimeo 4. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - Foley on Vimeo 5. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - Noise on Vimeo 6. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - Conclusions on Vimeo __________________ Jon Fairhurst