Newbie Advice for 5DII and Sony Vegas 8.0

Perrone Ford · August 1st, 2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Griffin

Just downloaded the Cineform Neoscene software trial. I see it converts my raw .mov files to .avi files. Is this a LOSSLESS codec transfer? In other words, does the quality remain uncompressed TRUE HD 1080p ??? I play it back and it looks great, but just curious.

No, it is not lossless. It is very good though, as you can see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Griffin

I do have another question....... so how are you guys monitoring your audio with no headphones jack?????

Record audio separately.

Jon Fairhurst · August 1st, 2009, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Griffin

...so how are you guys monitoring your audio with no headphones jack?????

The AV jack can output audio during recording, if you use Magic Lantern firmware. With most headphones, you need a headphone amplifier, like the Boostaroo.

Billy Griffin · August 1st, 2009, 05:03 PM

So if the converting of the raw .MOV files out of the camera is NOT lossless using Neoscene, it's only function then is to improve the playback while editing?

If I were wanting to keep the best quality, wouldn't it just be better to import the raw .MOV files into Sony Vegas and then 'render as' whatever format I choose?

I know this question has no real answer, but for the most part, what type of file association are you rendering to that gives you the HD quality look that I'm seeing on examples such as... Zelo Cinema Sample Clips on Vimeo ?????

Is the final product rendered into a FLV file? If so, using what format/codec?

Perrone Ford · August 1st, 2009, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Griffin

So if the converting of the raw .MOV files out of the camera is NOT lossless using Neoscene, it's only function then is to improve the playback while editing?

That is one of it's functions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Griffin

If I were wanting to keep the best quality, wouldn't it just be better to import the raw .MOV files into Sony Vegas and then 'render as' whatever format I choose?

That is an option. But it would be nearly impossible to tell the difference between lossless and cineform with your naked eye. You're talking about a codec that was used for capture and edit for an Oscar winner last year. It's pretty darn good man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Griffin

I know this question has no real answer, but for the most part, what type of file association are you rendering to that gives you the HD quality look that I'm seeing on examples such as... Zelo Cinema Sample Clips on Vimeo ?????

If you are finishing to anything other than 35mm film (and maybe even for that) Cineform is as good as uncompressed, without the pain. Vimeo... forget it. AVCHD would be good enough.

Jon Fairhurst · August 1st, 2009, 06:20 PM

The cool thing about Cineform is that the codec is "visually lossless", and that it plays back with low overhead. You can also scale the output to half or quarter size for real time playback very effectively, due to its wavelet coding. By scaling smaller, you leave more CPU for color correction and effects.

Often people use an intermediate format which is visually lossless in addition to low-res proxies, which play back easily. With Cineform, you get both characteristics from one file.

Billy Griffin · August 1st, 2009, 06:32 PM

So in 'newbie' terms, once the raw file is in Sony Vegas 8.0, when I'm ready to render, what file type and codec should I be using to get this kick-butt quality I'm seeing?

Jon Fairhurst · August 1st, 2009, 06:53 PM

I encode to Sony AVC, 1280x720 at 4Mbps. Audio is AAC at 128 kbps.

But I never put the raw files into Vegas. NeoScene has no negative effect on quality and makes editing a joy.

In fact, the levels will be incorrect if you put the RAW files into Vegas. At a minimum, you need to "rewrap" the MOV files to an MP4 file in Quicktime so that Vegas decodes the correct levels without contouring problems. NeoScene eliminates the MOV decoding bug.

Billy Griffin · August 1st, 2009, 07:18 PM

Will rendering to Sony AVC file format give you the best quality for YouTube and Vimeo uploads for sharing video?

EDIT: No luck rendering to Sony AVC, as I cannot get the file to play back on my computer. Any thoughts?

Jon Fairhurst · August 1st, 2009, 07:45 PM

You might try uploading it anyway. As long as Vimeo can decode it, they will put it in a format that Flash can play from your browser.

Perrone Ford · August 1st, 2009, 08:09 PM

I've uploaded sony avc to vimeo just fine. But it plays back on my commputer just fine too.

Billy Griffin · August 1st, 2009, 11:17 PM

Finally got some basic test footage uploaded to Vimeo using their tutorial. I rendered via MainConcept H.264 and it looks okay, not anything to write home about..........

Untitled on Vimeo

Perrone Ford · August 1st, 2009, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Griffin

Finally got some basic test footage uploaded to Vimeo using their tutorial. I rendered via MainConcept H.264 and it looks okay, not anything to write home about..........

Untitled on Vimeo

Looks about as good as one could expect. Good job.

Nigel Barker · August 2nd, 2009, 12:27 AM

HD video o Vimeo is 1280x720 H.264 at 5Mbps so for best picture quality you should convert your video to that specification before uploading.

Perrone Ford · August 2nd, 2009, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Barker

HD video o Vimeo is 1280x720 H.264 at 5Mbps so for best picture quality you should convert your video to that specification before uploading.

Why is that?

Billy Griffin · August 2nd, 2009, 01:59 PM

Nigel,

That's exactly what I did, per the Vimeo tutorial. I used Sony Vegas 8.0 and rendered the avi files as a MainConcept .mp4 file with those settings... 1280 X 720, etc. etc.
Once that file was rendered out, I then uploaded onto Vimeo website.

* Wonder if it would have been better to render in 1920 X 1080 on the MainConcept .mp4 file instead ???

August 1st, 2009, 06:20 PM	#20
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	The cool thing about Cineform is that the codec is "visually lossless", and that it plays back with low overhead. You can also scale the output to half or quarter size for real time playback very effectively, due to its wavelet coding. By scaling smaller, you leave more CPU for color correction and effects. Often people use an intermediate format which is visually lossless in addition to low-res proxies, which play back easily. With Cineform, you get both characteristics from one file. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

August 1st, 2009, 06:53 PM	#22
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	I encode to Sony AVC, 1280x720 at 4Mbps. Audio is AAC at 128 kbps. But I never put the raw files into Vegas. NeoScene has no negative effect on quality and makes editing a joy. In fact, the levels will be incorrect if you put the RAW files into Vegas. At a minimum, you need to "rewrap" the MOV files to an MP4 file in Quicktime so that Vegas decodes the correct levels without contouring problems. NeoScene eliminates the MOV decoding bug. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

August 1st, 2009, 07:45 PM	#24
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	You might try uploading it anyway. As long as Vimeo can decode it, they will put it in a format that Flash can play from your browser. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

August 1st, 2009, 08:09 PM	#25
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	I've uploaded sony avc to vimeo just fine. But it plays back on my commputer just fine too. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

August 1st, 2009, 05:03 PM	#18
Billy Griffin Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Enumclaw, WA Posts: 58	So if the converting of the raw .MOV files out of the camera is NOT lossless using Neoscene, it's only function then is to improve the playback while editing? If I were wanting to keep the best quality, wouldn't it just be better to import the raw .MOV files into Sony Vegas and then 'render as' whatever format I choose? I know this question has no real answer, but for the most part, what type of file association are you rendering to that gives you the HD quality look that I'm seeing on examples such as... Zelo Cinema Sample Clips on Vimeo ????? Is the final product rendered into a FLV file? If so, using what format/codec?

August 1st, 2009, 06:32 PM	#21
Billy Griffin Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Enumclaw, WA Posts: 58	So in 'newbie' terms, once the raw file is in Sony Vegas 8.0, when I'm ready to render, what file type and codec should I be using to get this kick-butt quality I'm seeing?

August 1st, 2009, 07:18 PM	#23
Billy Griffin Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Enumclaw, WA Posts: 58	Will rendering to Sony AVC file format give you the best quality for YouTube and Vimeo uploads for sharing video? EDIT: No luck rendering to Sony AVC, as I cannot get the file to play back on my computer. Any thoughts?

August 1st, 2009, 11:17 PM	#26
Billy Griffin Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Enumclaw, WA Posts: 58	Finally got some basic test footage uploaded to Vimeo using their tutorial. I rendered via MainConcept H.264 and it looks okay, not anything to write home about.......... Untitled on Vimeo

August 2nd, 2009, 12:27 AM	#28
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	HD video o Vimeo is 1280x720 H.264 at 5Mbps so for best picture quality you should convert your video to that specification before uploading.

August 2nd, 2009, 01:59 PM	#30
Billy Griffin Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Enumclaw, WA Posts: 58	Nigel, That's exactly what I did, per the Vimeo tutorial. I used Sony Vegas 8.0 and rendered the avi files as a MainConcept .mp4 file with those settings... 1280 X 720, etc. etc. Once that file was rendered out, I then uploaded onto Vimeo website. * Wonder if it would have been better to render in 1920 X 1080 on the MainConcept .mp4 file instead ???