Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed; with BeachTek DXA-5D and juicedLink CX231

Jon Fairhurst · July 4th, 2009, 04:38 PM

Set the timeout longer. You definitely want the +10dB analog gain.

Also, record with the levels on the low side to avoid clicks.

"Ai, yai, yai, yai..."

Have fun!

Tramm Hudson · July 4th, 2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

In Part 4 of Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed, I compare the Microtrack II, Zoom H4n, BeachTek DXA-5D, and the juicedLink CX 231 when recording foley sounds with a Rode NT1-A large condenser microphone.

4. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - Foley on Vimeo

Here's the spectragram. Not much to note on it, other than the gain on the Microtrack might be a little high after equalizing them and that the DXA-5D without the pilot tone is producing a sample that is not symmetric about 0. You can see a slight DC offset in the second data set if you view the image in full.

Jon Fairhurst · July 5th, 2009, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramm Hudson

Here's the spectragram. Not much to note on it, other than the gain on the Microtrack might be a little high after equalizing them and that the DXA-5D without the pilot tone is producing a sample that is not symmetric about 0. You can see a slight DC offset in the second data set if you view the image in full.

Yeah, the Microtrack seems too high. I'll double check my calibration and re-do it, if needed. I normalized on the pin drops. Between the higher noise and elevated bass, I expect the latter parts to be higher, but not that much higher.

I'm not sure where the DC offset came from on the BT/ML. I ran the pilot tone only into the left channel and the signal only into the right. I then selected the right channel only. The only adjustment I made aside from selecting the active channel was gain.

Jon Fairhurst · July 6th, 2009, 10:24 AM

I've now posted Part 5: Noise. During that work I triple checked my calibrations. Tonight I'll go back and make any needed adjustments to Part 4...

http://www.vimeo.com/5474562

In Part 5 of Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed, I compare the noise of the Microtrack II, Zoom H4n, BeachTek DXA-5D, and the juicedLink CX 231 using a now noise, Rode NT1-A large condenser microphone.

I first measured the sensitivity of the equipment with a 500Hz tone sequence. I then measured the noise with the microphone in a bathroom in a basement in the center of the floor plan. The mic was suspended in a space surrounded by thick blankets. When you hear my voice, I am outside of the bathroom, speaking through the door.

In post, I normalized all of the mics by adjusting the gains, based on the sensitivity measurements. On the second pass, I added another 18 dB of gain to all the samples to make the noise easy to hear on any playback system.

The uncompressed comparison audio is available here: http://p3pictures.com/audio_5d2/Audi...art5_Noise.zip

Don't miss...
Part 1: Camera Mounted Mic - 1. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - Boom Mic (juicedLink, Zoom H4n, Microtrack II, BeachTek) on Vimeo
Part 2: Camera Mounted Mic - 2. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - On Camera (juicedLink, Zoom H4n, Microtrack II, BeachTek) on Vimeo
Part 3: Wireless Lavalier - 3. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - Wireless Lav on Vimeo
Part 4: Foley - 4. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - Foley on Vimeo
...
Part 6: Conclusions (pending)

Denis OKeefe · July 6th, 2009, 01:06 PM

Jon, your perseverance and the depth of your testing is impressive - well done, thanks for sharing so much effort! I'm looking for a down and hopefully not too dirty method to use right away with the gear I have. I'd like to run a lectrosonics SR two channel receiver into the camera, and need to have a cable made. Is there power on the mic jack for the canon?
I'm assuming I can adjust the gain off the receiver to a high mic/low line kind of setting, and avoid buying an additional preamp.
Does this sound reasonable based on your experience?

Chris Barcellos · July 6th, 2009, 01:26 PM

Denis:

In case Jon doesn't get to you, preamps are going to get you cleanest sound. In order to get a usable level of sound, whether going into camera, and/or in boosting after the fact, the low noise provided by a good preamp is highly desireable. The JuicedLink provides that benefit. Pushing the camera gain up, will result in noise levels that aren't desirable. Whether your set up qualifies as a preamp set up is another issue.

I can get more preamp boost, at the expense of portability, with my ENG44 field mixer, but for on camera recording, I don't see another reasonable alternative than to go with a preamped XLR Adapter like the Juiced Link.

Denis OKeefe · July 6th, 2009, 01:42 PM

Hello Chris - The wireless puts out a pretty high level and is adjustable, its small and I already own it ( the best feature of all).
I need a plug out of the 5D to two mini XLR connectors and my wiring friends want to know if there is power in the circuit which will require capacitors to be soldered into the connector.

Chris Barcellos · July 6th, 2009, 02:45 PM

Denis: There is no phantom power from the camera. That's another benefit of the Juiced Link, it provides phantom power up to 48 v. You would have to adapt to mini xlr out of the Juiced Link, (edit ) -> but it sounds like you are not looking for power. This is is simple mini plug input. Are you planning to use Magic Lantern to enable metering ? You will need to, in my opinion, in order to get your levels right, and to monitor out through the AV Jack.

Jon Fairhurst · July 6th, 2009, 03:11 PM

Denis,

The 5D has a +5V supply for electret mics. It's still enabled with the ML firmware. Hopefully, we'll be able to turn it off in a future revision.

And, yeah, if the signal from your receiver is hot, no preamp is required. I'd go with a couple of transformers for impedance matching and solder a short, custom Y-cable to connect to the 5D. AC coupling would be good to preserve the 5V supply, but is probably not needed. I believe that the supply is behind a series resistor to protect it.

Tramm Hudson · July 6th, 2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

The 5D has a +5V supply for electret mics. It's still enabled with the ML firmware. Hopefully, we'll be able to turn it off in a future revision.

Oh, you wanted it turned off? That's easy enough to do. I'll add it as a config option in 0.1.5.

Chris Barcellos · July 6th, 2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

Denis,

The 5D has a +5V supply for electret mics. It's still enabled with the ML firmware. Hopefully, we'll be able to turn it off in a future revision.

I missed that, sorry.

Jon Fairhurst · July 6th, 2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramm Hudson

Oh, you wanted it turned off? That's easy enough to do. I'll add it as a config option in 0.1.5.

Sweet! That should reduce low frequency noise slightly.

Tramm Hudson · July 8th, 2009, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramm Hudson

One problem, as I'm sure you have run into, is that the Canon firmware will try to use the composite video output when it boots, which requires the headset to be unplugged and plugged back in. Perhaps using the HDMI output will fix that in the next release of my firmware.

Good news, everyone! Magic Lantern 0.1.5 partially supports HDMI output, which has the advantage that Canon's software assigns it a higher priority. So you can leave your DP1 and your headphones plugged in all the time to the camera when switching to and from Magic Lantern.

Matthew Roddy · July 8th, 2009, 01:17 PM

Tramm,
I hope you'll forgive my ignorance of HDMI, but what does "partially supports HDMI output" mean?
Are you able to pass full res output to an HDMI monitor?

Tramm Hudson · July 8th, 2009, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Roddy

I hope you'll forgive my ignorance of HDMI, but what does "partially supports HDMI output" mean?

Parts of the Magic Lantern interface are off screen on an HDMI monitor (like the left audio level) and the zebras/crop marks do not line up with the correct locations. The next version will have full HDMI support since I have a Small HD DP1 to experiment on.

Quote:

Are you able to pass full res output to an HDMI monitor?

I'm working on it. I can switch it to 1080i for a frame while recording, but the Canon software switches it back immediately on the next frame. This resolution switch is also messing up the functions like zebra stripes that need to overlay the YUV video stream.

July 4th, 2009, 04:38 PM	#76
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Set the timeout longer. You definitely want the +10dB analog gain. Also, record with the levels on the low side to avoid clicks. "Ai, yai, yai, yai..." Have fun! __________________ Jon Fairhurst

July 6th, 2009, 10:24 AM	#79
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	I've now posted Part 5: Noise. During that work I triple checked my calibrations. Tonight I'll go back and make any needed adjustments to Part 4... http://www.vimeo.com/5474562 In Part 5 of Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed, I compare the noise of the Microtrack II, Zoom H4n, BeachTek DXA-5D, and the juicedLink CX 231 using a now noise, Rode NT1-A large condenser microphone. I first measured the sensitivity of the equipment with a 500Hz tone sequence. I then measured the noise with the microphone in a bathroom in a basement in the center of the floor plan. The mic was suspended in a space surrounded by thick blankets. When you hear my voice, I am outside of the bathroom, speaking through the door. In post, I normalized all of the mics by adjusting the gains, based on the sensitivity measurements. On the second pass, I added another 18 dB of gain to all the samples to make the noise easy to hear on any playback system. The uncompressed comparison audio is available here: http://p3pictures.com/audio_5d2/Audi...art5_Noise.zip Don't miss... Part 1: Camera Mounted Mic - 1. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - Boom Mic (juicedLink, Zoom H4n, Microtrack II, BeachTek) on Vimeo Part 2: Camera Mounted Mic - 2. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - On Camera (juicedLink, Zoom H4n, Microtrack II, BeachTek) on Vimeo Part 3: Wireless Lavalier - 3. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - Wireless Lav on Vimeo Part 4: Foley - 4. Canon 5D Mark II Audio Exposed - Foley on Vimeo ... Part 6: Conclusions (pending) __________________ Jon Fairhurst

July 6th, 2009, 01:06 PM	#80
Denis OKeefe Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wayne, PA Posts: 207	wireless direc to camera Jon, your perseverance and the depth of your testing is impressive - well done, thanks for sharing so much effort! I'm looking for a down and hopefully not too dirty method to use right away with the gear I have. I'd like to run a lectrosonics SR two channel receiver into the camera, and need to have a cable made. Is there power on the mic jack for the canon? I'm assuming I can adjust the gain off the receiver to a high mic/low line kind of setting, and avoid buying an additional preamp. Does this sound reasonable based on your experience?

July 6th, 2009, 01:26 PM	#81
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Denis: In case Jon doesn't get to you, preamps are going to get you cleanest sound. In order to get a usable level of sound, whether going into camera, and/or in boosting after the fact, the low noise provided by a good preamp is highly desireable. The JuicedLink provides that benefit. Pushing the camera gain up, will result in noise levels that aren't desirable. Whether your set up qualifies as a preamp set up is another issue. I can get more preamp boost, at the expense of portability, with my ENG44 field mixer, but for on camera recording, I don't see another reasonable alternative than to go with a preamped XLR Adapter like the Juiced Link. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

July 6th, 2009, 02:45 PM	#83
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Denis: There is no phantom power from the camera. That's another benefit of the Juiced Link, it provides phantom power up to 48 v. You would have to adapt to mini xlr out of the Juiced Link, (edit ) -> but it sounds like you are not looking for power. This is is simple mini plug input. Are you planning to use Magic Lantern to enable metering ? You will need to, in my opinion, in order to get your levels right, and to monitor out through the AV Jack. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

July 6th, 2009, 01:42 PM	#82
Denis OKeefe Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wayne, PA Posts: 207	Hello Chris - The wireless puts out a pretty high level and is adjustable, its small and I already own it ( the best feature of all). I need a plug out of the 5D to two mini XLR connectors and my wiring friends want to know if there is power in the circuit which will require capacitors to be soldered into the connector.

July 6th, 2009, 03:11 PM	#84
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Denis, The 5D has a +5V supply for electret mics. It's still enabled with the ML firmware. Hopefully, we'll be able to turn it off in a future revision. And, yeah, if the signal from your receiver is hot, no preamp is required. I'd go with a couple of transformers for impedance matching and solder a short, custom Y-cable to connect to the 5D. AC coupling would be good to preserve the 5V supply, but is probably not needed. I believe that the supply is behind a series resistor to protect it. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

July 8th, 2009, 01:17 PM	#89
Matthew Roddy Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Riverside, Ca Posts: 307	Tramm, I hope you'll forgive my ignorance of HDMI, but what does "partially supports HDMI output" mean? Are you able to pass full res output to an HDMI monitor?