Neutral Density filters for a 5D...

[Wayne Avanson]

I'd be interested to know how that goes Nigel. And also if you feel there's any discolouration problems. I have various values of Chinese NDs and they are all different colours. Some unusable.

Avey

[Dan Brockett]

I would definitely like to check out your budget Vari ND Nigel. I agree with Wayne, I recently sold off all of my Cokin NDs and ND grads because the supposedly gray tints were leaning way toward brown. Neutral density really does need to be uniform and neutrally gray.

Talk soon,

Dan

[Nigel Barker]

I hope to have the 77mm Fader ND filter within the next week or so. Stuff arrives here pretty quickly from Hong Kong (they have some pretty stamps too:-). I had an email from the charmingly named Boniface Leung who told me that the 72mm filter is back-ordered but he should have some next week.

[Mark Hahn]

Originally Posted by Dan Brockett

I would definitely like to check out your budget Vari ND Nigel. I agree with Wayne, I recently sold off all of my Cokin NDs and ND grads because the supposedly gray tints were leaning way toward brown. Neutral density really does need to be uniform and neutrally gray.

Talk soon,

Dan

I don't understand why it has to be neutral. Don't you always have to fix the color in post anyway? Not arguing, really want to know.

[Jon Fairhurst]

Originally Posted by Mark Hahn

I don't understand why it has to be neutral. Don't you always have to fix the color in post anyway? Not arguing, really want to know.

Good point, Mark. As long as the color is uniform, color balancing will get it close and post will do the rest.

The only risk is that the filter could push down the color with the worst sensitivity to the sensor, and push up the most sensitive color. That could really limit the image in certain light. Then again, it could to the opposite and level the colors. Murphy's law says it will be the former. ;)

[Mark Hahn]

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

Good point, Mark. As long as the color is uniform, color balancing will get it close and post will do the rest.

The only risk is that the filter could push down the color with the worst sensitivity to the sensor, and push up the most sensitive color. That could really limit the image in certain light. Then again, it could to the opposite and level the colors. Murphy's law says it will be the former. ;)

I just got a Cokin set that I haven't tried yet. I'll do an experiment (maybe right now?) and shoot stills of a white screen at 18% with an identical studio light of known color temperature. One with the Cokin ND and one without. Then I will compare the raw colors and see what comes out.

I'll try it by adjusting the ISO in one case to match and speed in the other. Speed would probably be the least likely to affect the color.

[Mark Hahn]

I think I'm in luck with my Cokin coloring. I tried a zillion different combinations of filters, took multiple shots, and averaged them. After all that work it became clear that comparing just the two most extreme values told the whole story.

No filter: r:142, g:140, b:140
3 filters: r:113, g:129, b:132

First of all, ignore the overall exposure difference. I estimated 6 stops by going from 1/400 to 1/6 which is not accurate. But now let's look at the ratios for each primary. In other words these are the values for the filtered cases divided by the original values and then normalized for exposure:

r: 0.86, g: 0.99, b: 1.01

It is clear that the only real change is a drop in red. This is very different than the brown tint that is reported everywhere.

Here are the two extreme shots. The first is 0 stops with no filter at 1/400:

Picasa Web Albums - mchahn

This is with all three of the 1, 2, and 3 stop P series Cokin filters at 1/6 (forgive the camera shake):

Picasa Web Albums - mchahn

You can see the blue-green tint.

I think this is good news because red is usually the one that clips first (in my experience) so losing some red will allow good recovery in post.

Comments?

[Fred LeFevre]

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

There are posts on another forum claiming that the lowest noise points are 160, 320, 640, 1250, and 2500 ISO. I haven't tested or confirmed it myself.

Anyway, with your variable ND, you could easily choose to hit 100, 160, or whatever you want, given enough light.

@Peer: Personally, I wouldn't choose two 0.3 NDs. If I only had one, I'd probably choose a 0.9 for the situation where I want to open the aperture by three stops in daylight. Few in the audience will notice a one stop change in aperture. On my lawnmower timelapse, Rocket-Powered Lawnmower on Vimeo , I used a 0.9, closed the aperture to f/22, captured one second open and one second closed (the minimum settings on my controller), and I still blew out the highlights. I wish I had a 1.8 at the time. I could have exposed two stops lower and opened the aperture one stop to reduce diffusion.

Cool video - what advantage does shooting in live mode bring to this situation (not to hijack the thread).

[Jon Fairhurst]

Originally Posted by Fred LeFevre

Cool video - what advantage does shooting in live mode bring to this situation (not to hijack the thread).

Ideally, I would be able to keep the mirror locked up for less vibration. I'm not sure that I achieve this. Also, for best results the iris should stay in the same position between shots. I used a Nikon lens, so I achieved that, but I hear that there are tricks for keeping EOS lens irises from opening between shots. Anyway, the less that moves between shots, the better - both for camera wear and to keep everything solid from shot to shot.

And, yes, I wish I had a stronger ND filter at the time (back on topic...)

[Nigel Barker]

My 77mm Fader ND variable neutral density filter arrived from Hong Kong yesterday. It look very nicely made works smoothly & a nice touch came with a 82mm lens cap (to reduce vignettting it is really an 82mm filter in a 77mm step-down ring). I haven't done extensive testing yet but it looks great with no colour cast & very even density change throughout the range right up until it reaches the max.

I will have the opportunity in the next couple of days to compare this filter directly with a Singh-Ray variable ND filter which costs 4x the price so will report back but my preliminary results are very, very good. I will be ordering a 72mm & probably another couple of 77mm. At this price it is affordable to keep a filter on each lens. It means that I can enable Highlight Tone Priority & still use wide aperture despite the minimum 200 ISO & just remove the filter in very low light situations as the grain on this camera is imperceptible even at very high ISO.

Here is the link to the eBay store of Boniface Leung where you ill find the Fader ND filter in a variety of sizes from 82mm down & the smaller sizes are even more affordable (58mm is $58 delivered) http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/bonifaceleung

BTW I notice that there is another seller on eBay with the 77mm filter at the cheaper price of just $90.33 delivered Fader ND filter ND2 to ND8 ND400 for Canon 24-105 77mm - eBay (item 390059789820 end time Jun-24-09 00:53:36 PDT)

[Olof Ekbergh]

I just ordered the 77mm version as well, sounds great.

I love the idea set your f-stop. Set your shutter speed. Set your ASA. Dial your ND for correct exposure.

The only down side is you can no longer use an external light meter (LunaPro). I still use that a lot, maybe I am showing my age.

For video it is great and if quality of optics are acceptable it would be great for stills.

I still always have to soften the image in Color to make acceptable video, and I am experimenting with softening filters while shooting. So if this softens the image somewhat I would not mind at all.

[Nigel Barker]

I have now been using my 77mm Fader ND for a few days & it is just great. I have been
really, really pleased with my purchase. There are no aberrations or colour casts & it just works as advertised.

I have been able to compare the Fader ND with a Singh-Ray Vari-ND & the Fader ND is better. The Singh-Ray is very thick & can cause vignetting with wide angle lenses whereas the Fader ND does not. The Fader ND 77mm is actually an 82mm filter that is in a 77mm step down mount & a nice touch is that an 82mm lens cap was included.

I always thought that the Singh-Ray was crazily expensive for what it is. The Fader ND is not cheap crap but is at least as good quality as the Singh-Ray but at a much more reasonable price. It also comes in a greater range of filter sizes. I have already ordered a couple more.

[Olof Ekbergh]

Nigil,

How does the 82mm work with Canons lens hoods. I use a 70-200 f 2.8, 100-400 and 17-40 and 24-105 all are 77's.

I ordered one and I should have it in a week or so.

Just curious, if you use it on any of those lenses.

[Bruce G. Cleveland]

I just got a Singh vari nd filter this week and all I can say is....wow. A lot of money I know, but it really is a quality product. Makes shooting in the sun a breeze.

Bruce Cleveland

[Ben Syverson]

I have a Hoya multicoated 8X (aka 0.9 aka 3 stop) ND filter. It's been all I need so far.