It's official: Canon USA offers 5D2 firmware update

[William Chung]

Even the Scarlet 2/3 is a different price range unless you plan on shooting video with just the brain part (2,500$) itself

at 1080p the fastest it goes is 30fps

The rolling shutter might be better at the smaller resolution that can hit 150fps but at 1080p and 30 fps it remains to me be seen. Ergonomics and audio support come from buying the components

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

Yes and no. Comparing the 5D2 to the Scarlet 2/3" (the Scarlet S35 and FF35 are in a very different price range), here's a quick summary...

5D MkII
* Fantastic low light capabilities
* Full frame DOF - more than Super 35 film
* Support for many, many lenses; you can rent glass in any large city.
* Affordable and widely available

Scarlet 2/3" (expected, anyway)
* Blazing fast capture for slow motion (180 fps burst, I believe)
* 24/25p
* Superior audio support
* No rolling shutter artifact to speak of
* Better ergonomics for video
* Electronic zoom
* Continuous autofocus
* RAW video for smooth grading
* True 1080/2k resolution without aliasing (the 5D has moire artifacts)
* Longer shooting times

If you don't need the 35mm DOF, Scarlet has the potential to be superior in many ways. However, if you want 35mm and you want it now, the 5D MkII is king.

[Jon Fairhurst]

The Scarlet and 5D prices aren't the same, but close enough to compete for similar budgets. I would think that the fixed lens Scarlet is cheaper than the 5D2 plus a moderate lens collection.

Regarding 1080p, the frame rate limitation is probably due to the encoder, or to the limits of HD-SDI or HDMI. It shouldn't affect sensor speed. I'd be really surprised if the rolling shutter varies when choosing RAW or 1080p, unless there's cropping going on.

In fact, here's a tip for getting less rolling shutter on Vimeo with the 5D2. Instead of scaling to 720p, crop. That reduces the top-to-bottom time from 25ms to 16.7ms.

Here's some perspective about the 5D2 sensor vs. the D90. The D90 clearly has worse rolling shutter than the 5D2. Let's assume that it is scanning 90% of the time vs. the 5D2, which scans 75% of the time. (And, yes, this is an assumption.) However, the frame rate is 24p on the D90, rather than 30p on the 5D2. My assumption yields 37.5 ms of scan time top-to-bottom for the D90. Keep in mind that it only has 720 lines vs the 5D2's 1080 lines.

Using my assumption, the D90 scans at 52us per line. The 5D2 scans at about 23us per line. Add it up and the 5D2 sensor is about twice as fast as the D90 sensor - and that's on a full frame vs. APSC chip.

If we assume the Scarlet scan time I posted above, and recall that it has about 50% more lines to scan, it's about 7 times faster than the 5D2 sensor, in terms of line speed. Sure, it's a 2/3" chip vs. full frame, but still, it's pretty impressive!

[Jason Linn]

I'm glad that they decided to fix the problem. They could have very easily just went on to the next model of amazing DSLR's. Thank you Canon!

[Christian Ionescu]

Hi, everybody!

I am on the verge of buying a new video camera. Last weeks I had numerous headaches looking for the perfect camera 4,000 USD could buy. They are almost all HDV(a home consumer codec and almost dying at only 25Mb/s) and small sensor(1/3"). Till a few days ago I was "hardly determined" to buy the Canon XH A1s, as all my funds are around 4,000USD. After long debate with myself and mostly after seeing the new update I "definitely decided" to go with Canon EOS 5D Mark II, despite the strange ergonomics for shooting video. I intend to shoot mostly drama and I am not very interested in kind of documentary or news shooting style(on the go). I know almost to nothing on AVCHD. So, I have a couple of questions and I am waiting answers from people who have some kind of pro shooting experience with Canon EOS 5D Mark II. Here are my questions:

1. How suited is 5D Mark II for video pro shooting? What kind of problems could appear all along the work flow, starting with shooting and ending with editing.(Have you tried chroma keying? Are there motion artifacts? etc)

2. I read in a manual that video record starts by pressing the "set" button. Is it possible to start recording from a remote control?

I apologize for the long intro and thank you for your answers.

God help us all!
Honestly,
Christian I. Ionescu

[Evan Donn]

Originally Posted by William Chung

at 1080p the fastest it goes is 30fps

The rolling shutter might be better at the smaller resolution that can hit 150fps but at 1080p and 30 fps it remains to me be seen.

Actually, it does 150fps at a higher resolution, not smaller - and that actually suggests to me that the rolling shutter won't change between the two resolutions.

The specs say 120fps at 3k, and 30 at 1080p. If they were just cropping the 3k resolution to get 1080 then there's no reason they couldn't do the same frame rate, and they specify full frame for the 1080 at 30. So the lower frame rate limitation of 1080 comes from the overhead of downsampling (and possibly debayering/compression, if it's going to an RGB codec instead of RAW) and is not a limitation of the sensor. So I think it's pretty safe to assume that the rolling shutter should be the same regardless of the resolution/frame rate.

The 150fps burst at 3k capability to me indicates the likely sensor read-out speed - I'm sure what makes it a 'burst' spec is the storage bottleneck. So the ability to read the entire sensor at 150fps indicates a < 7ms read-reset speed which is about a quarter of the 5D's. Personally I've found the rolling shutter on the 5D to be only a minor inconvenience in everyday use, so I'm pretty confident it won't be an issue at all with Scarlet.

I think a lot of people either discount or simply aren't aware of Scarlet's greatest strength in comparison to almost any other camera - RAW recording. I haven't personally worked with RED RAW footage yet, but I recently did some work with raw data from a 3DVX3 - a DVX100-based 3D frankencam that pulls 10-bit 720p+ RAW data directly from the sensors. The quality of the footage was amazing and a real revelation to work with - side by side with the same subject the footage was as good as (in some cases better than) footage from an HPX500. Amazing, considering it came from standard definition 1/3" chips in a 5-year old, < $4k fixed-lens camera. It made me realize how much of a limitation in-camera processing and compression really is - and how good Scarlet should be considering it's a much more modern, larger, higher resolution sensor. If RED can hit the current specs and ship Scarlet in a reasonable time frame I don't think any current camera will really compare to even the fixed-lens version just because of the RAW capabilities.

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Christian Ionescu

HDV (a home consumer codec and almost dying at only 25Mb/s) and small sensor(1/3").

It's important to realize that HDV is *not* a "home consumer codec." HDV is the recording format of a variety of professional-level camera systems including JVC Pro HD as well as Sony and Canon. HDV is consistently used for broadcast applications. It is most definitely not "dying." And the Canon HV series CMOS sensor is actually larger than 1/3rd-inch.

Is it possible to start recording from a remote control?

Yes, by using one of a couple of Canon EOS wireless remote controller models, such as the Canon RC-1. Hope this helps,

[Yang Wen]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Yes, by using one of a couple of Canon EOS wireless remote controller models, such as the Canon RC-1. Hope this helps,

Chris, the remote is able to execute the SET button? is the remote IR? Then wouldn't you need to be pointing at the IR port on the camera?

[Dan Chung]

Originally Posted by Yang Wen

Chris, the remote is able to execute the SET button? is the remote IR? Then wouldn't you need to be pointing at the IR port on the camera?

Discussed here http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-eos...s-release.html

[Peer Landa]

Originally Posted by Christian Ionescu

I am on the verge of buying a new video camera. [...] I intend to shoot mostly drama [...]
1. How suited is 5D Mark II for video pro shooting? What kind of problems could appear all along the work flow, starting with shooting and ending with editing.(Have you tried chroma keying?

I don't know, but by "drama" if you mean theater plays, then keep in mind that you can only shoot 12 minutes continuously with the 5D.

-- peer

[Dan Brockett]

Good point Peer. I have been shooting long interviews and realistically, besides the 4GB limit, to shoot long form, you need to buy two 5D MKIIs and alternate between them because the imager heats up and gets noisy too. I am sure I will be picking up another one or two of them unless something better and cheaper comes out.

Dan

[Mark Hahn]

Originally Posted by Dan Brockett

... because the imager heats up and gets noisy too.
Dan

Have you seen this with your own eyes? I shoot with the 5D2 in live mode for 8 to 10 hours a day, all day, and I don't see any extra noise.

[Paulo Teixeira]

I’m not sure if I’ll be able to afford the GH1 for myself let alone buy it for someone else buy if I was extremely rich I would loan one to Tramm Hudson and tell him he can keep it as long as he develops a firmware to enable live output during record mode. If that were to happen, I bet Panasonic would be just as quick to announce a firmware as Canon was.

People were already producing some wonderful stuff. With this firmware, it’s looks like we ain’t seen nothing yet.

[Peer Landa]

Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira

I bet Panasonic would be just as quick to announce a firmware as Canon was.

But who cares? As long as it isn't a full frame camera, I'm certainly not looking in Panasonic's direction.

-- peer

[Paulo Teixeira]

That’s almost like saying who cares about the HM100 or the HMC150 when you can get an EX1 with bigger chips.

For the people who either can't afford the 5D Mark II, want an articulating screen, constant auto focusing in video or want a more portable camera, they care.

[Peer Landa]

Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira

For the people who either can't afford the 5D Mark II, want an articulating screen, constant auto focusing in video or want a more portable camera, they care.

Yep, people are different. In my case, I was debating getting a ground-glass DOF converter for my already bulky Canon XL2 rig, or get a full frame 5D. What I've always been after is that classy film look.

-- peer