Cinevate's new rig for the 5D2... at DVinfo.net

Peer Landa · May 5th, 2009, 10:14 PM

This got up on their website today:

Cinevate Inc.

I'll save my comments till later...

-- peer

Glen Elliott · May 5th, 2009, 10:21 PM

It sure doesn't 'look' as cool as the RedRock rigs. It looks a little sloppy- however looks can be deceiving. The best part about it is the price.... $0.00. :)

Jon Fairhurst · May 6th, 2009, 12:25 AM

Not exactly a thing of beauty, it is?

Then again, I hear that their Durus Follow Focus is silky smooth. I'll take a stripped down version of the rig with one of those, please...

Peer Landa · May 6th, 2009, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

Not exactly a thing of beauty, it is?

Frankly, with a price tag of $0, I first thought it was a joke -- that they were competing for some sort of Razzie Award in film gear design. It looks like their product designer (if they have one) is the same guy who made this motorcycle stand that we use to lift 500lb bikes with: O'Neal Racing Bike Stand - Motorcycle Superstore

Quote:

Then again, I hear that their Durus Follow Focus is silky smooth.

Well, at $940 it might as well be made out of silky gold.

-- peer

Toenis Liivamaegi · May 6th, 2009, 08:20 AM

Bloody hell, I saw this on the NAB pics but with all seriousness WTF is that? "Look mom I have a motorized head on my shoulder!"
And still I see a mattebox with dual non-independently rotating trays (for grad and polarizer)?
Those handles when compared to 15mm rod diametre are something like 20mm in dia. How well can you hold those gripsticks?

Maybe it's time to mount 35mm magazine to the hotshoe of 5D just because it looks like something else than DSLR then?

I truly respect all the DOF adaptor makers trying to survive the extinction of 35mm adaptor but hell, the market has exploded in different direction - it is mass market now.
How short sighted are the small companies that are in the best possible position to sell thousands of items to this new market if they did even some online research on how to make things work with minimal effort.

Cheers,
T

Dennis Wood · May 6th, 2009, 05:49 PM

Normally I would ignore posts like the ones above as I don't believe they reflect Chris Hurd's policy of mutual respect on the site. However there are a few things here that need to be set straight. Besides, Glenn, you deserve a polite answer :-) You probably don't recall this but 5 years ago I was inspired by your work in shooting my first (and only) wedding. The DSLR rig posted on our website is missing a price and description because Hubert posted it up yesterday and mistakenly left it online. You'll see it back up tomorrow...he's just learning that side of the business.

To be perfectly clear, our DSLR shoot rigs are based completely on our Proteus carbon rails systems which have two patents pending at this point. They are highly regarded systems that have received very positive reviews from the likes of Phil Bloom (search his blog) and Matt Jeppsen over at FreshDV. We have not come up with marketing gimmicks, crap or otherwise as our system is based on tried, proven and true products already in use by our customers. The rails are solid carbon fiber, and all the parts 100% CNC machined aluminum. They are lifetime parts. The cage, shoulder mount and rails system have been configured as our shooters in the field prefer to use them. If you look on the cover of EventDV's April issue, you'll see Patrick Moreau's rig which is pretty much what you see in our catalog. His article on using the 5D MkII is in the article. The good news is that if you already own our Proteus 45cm rails and our shoulder mount kit, you've got pretty much everything you need. We will offer the kit with our Proteus cage and Durus follow focus as options simply because our shooters have expressly requested these options. The Durus follow focus is a very special product carying a lifetime warranty. It's made completely here in Canada and each unit is hand assembled by the machinists who make them. Currently, they're priced significantly below where they should be. Finally, following NAB, we've been overwhelmed with requests to arrange the existing components in kit form...hence the DSLR catalog entry.

We shot the video segment today on the DSLR shoot rig and our modular swing-away mattebox. If the filter options are an issue, you'll want to wait for the upcoming 4x5.6 independent 3-tray module. These will be up early next week.

If you're still skeptical, it would be good to mention that Canon USA chose to tour our booth at NAB with their VIP corporate group. Our remote focus controller was of special interest mounted on the Canon 5D MkII used with Patrick's Steadicam Flyer :-)

Respectfully,
Dennis Wood
www.cinevate.com

Glen Elliott · May 6th, 2009, 09:31 PM

Hey Dennis great to see you on here. 5 years ago- wow. Was it from this board??? Very flattering indeed. Now I'm sure you have to look no further than Patrick...at least that's true for myself.

Anyway- agreed some of those comments were uncalled for. Even mine being a bit borderline, my apologies. You guys make great products and I'm sure you know this but I recently invested in a Pegasus Heavy Lifter and two sets of rails from you guys. Earlier pining over going a less expensive route with the indislider and the like- I'm quite pleased with my decision. I was even able to use it on a shoot this past weekend for the first time and I loved the moving footage I was able to achieve with it, even the first time using it. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-eos...hts-shoot.html

Tell Hubert I appreciate the excellent customer service and super fast turn-around! Especially considering he had to deal with me when I was aggravated after getting the rig and realizing I needed a ball attachment for the onboard bull!

Anyway to make a long story short I just wanted to let others know that you guys have come a long way and are making some awesome products. I spent about 10 minutes drooling over your follow focus unit in the Video University section of your site.

I also wanted to apologize for the other members rather rude comments about your product as well. The last thing I want is for the community to discourage you guys. I think you guys are an asset to the industry and appreciate all the time and effort you guys put into designing new products. I think it's great that there's another DSLR rig on the block it makes it better for all of us to have a wider selection to choose from.

Keep up the great work and thank you kindly for the great experience I had doing business with you personally.

Chris Barcellos · May 6th, 2009, 09:52 PM

Dennis, I am curious how the shooter will get his eyes on the LCD. My experience is that you need something like a hood loupe to shoot in a lot of situations. The way the pic looks is that the camera is aligned with the rails makiing use of a hood loupe very difficult.

Sean Seah · May 6th, 2009, 10:07 PM

Thks for the new solution Dennis. I think it is good to have more choices anytime. It's a matter of personal preference on the solutions. Please keep up the good work and excellent service support. Cinevate wins my vote for one of the best service support for a non US/Canadian customer.

Dennis Wood · May 7th, 2009, 12:58 PM

Glen, that picture should be in our catalog...I love it! I won't however show it to our insurance agent :-) I normally wouldn't mention a customer's relationship with us online, but now that you've mentioned it...I did notice (and remember) your name in the outgoing orders a few weeks ago. We have indeed worked very hard to elevate the company and it's service to the standard we feel shooters deserve. Your experience with us it what we're striving for with every customer, product and transaction. Thanks for saying thanks :-)

Lou, typically the shooter's right or left eye ends up being just off axis to the camera...and so works great that way. The shoulder rig has nearly infinite variations so you can reconfig the shoulder mount to rest against your chest to keep the camera directly in front too. Chris is editing the DSLR piece as I type this so expect a Cinevate Video University update in a day or two. The video covers several different configurations as we outfit the rig.

Cheers,
Dennis Wood
www.cinevate.com

Dennis Wood · May 9th, 2009, 12:50 AM

The promised video overview and catalog entry are up. If anyone has things they'd like to see...we're always listening. Our record for taking a concept idea to production is 4 days so if there's a feature you'd like to see and it makes sense, we'll likely do it :-)

Cheers,
Dennis Wood
www.cinevate.com

Chris Barcellos · May 9th, 2009, 01:18 PM

Dennis:

I still think you have to get the camera offset from the center of the rig, so shooter can get something like a Hoodman on it. The way it is set up, I don't see how it can be doable. I ghetto rigged something here:

YouTube - Prototype Shoulder Brace For Canon 5D Mark II

The big weak point with this camera is not being able focus. At this point, best method seems to be by magnifying viewof the LCD-- especially in hand held situation, Monitoring out will not work that well, because in goes out to SD during shooting. That is the challenge. If you are shoulder mounting, assumption is you want to be able to focus on the fly.

Ron Coker · May 9th, 2009, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toenis Liivamaegi

Bloody hell, I saw this on the NAB pics but with all seriousness WTF is that? "Look mom I have a motorized head on my shoulder!"
And still I see a mattebox with dual non-independently rotating trays (for grad and polarizer)?
Those handles when compared to 15mm rod diametre are something like 20mm in dia. How well can you hold those gripsticks?

Maybe it's time to mount 35mm magazine to the hotshoe of 5D just because it looks like something else than DSLR then?

I truly respect all the DOF adaptor makers trying to survive the extinction of 35mm adaptor but hell, the market has exploded in different direction - it is mass market now.
How short sighted are the small companies that are in the best possible position to sell thousands of items to this new market if they did even some online research on how to make things work with minimal effort.

Cheers,
T

Toenis, I'm with you 100%. Do you ever recall seeing actual camera footage from any of these rigs (no matter what brand name) Footage of camera person walking, changing direction, up & down stairs etc, you know, the little every day events ? I can't say I have. However there is an abundance of beautifully styled product promotion videos, ones with gorgeous handles, and snappy must have clamps, and so on. These days I think the term is, marketing, (like ice for Eskimos). The short version, be big, let's see the product in action, to evaluate it's true worth.

The sad fact is, 5DMK2 has no included stabilization, it records every movement faithfully, dings and all. In my estimation, it is imperative to have this camera on a solid foundation for quality results. My favorite tool of choice, a tripod.

Happy shooting. Ron.

Dan Chung · May 9th, 2009, 08:03 PM

Glen,

The Pegasus heavy lifter looks good, I'm amazed to see that you have it rigged to slide with the weight of a full Redrock rig on top! does it slide easily like that? There is no way my original Glidetrack would support that and still slide smoothly. I'm just watching the Cinevate video university video now.

Dennis,

I'd love to know if the bowl could be made to work with the head from my Miller DS20. Also I'd agree with Chris that it would be good to offer a system that allows the use of a Hoodloupe or Z-finder up to the eye. That said the new little Ikan 5.6 inch LCD would probably work well with your setup.

Dan

Dan Chung · May 9th, 2009, 08:11 PM

Ron and Toenis,

Trust me these kind of rigs work, I use them all the time.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-eos...ii-photos.html

Dan

May 5th, 2009, 10:14 PM	#1
Peer Landa Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Norwegian lost in California Posts: 890	Cinevate's new rig for the 5D2... This got up on their website today: Cinevate Inc. I'll save my comments till later... -- peer __________________ www.NoPEER.com

May 5th, 2009, 10:21 PM	#2
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	It sure doesn't 'look' as cool as the RedRock rigs. It looks a little sloppy- however looks can be deceiving. The best part about it is the price.... $0.00. :) __________________ Glen Elliott Cord 3 Films

May 6th, 2009, 12:25 AM	#3
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Not exactly a thing of beauty, it is? Then again, I hear that their Durus Follow Focus is silky smooth. I'll take a stripped down version of the rig with one of those, please... __________________ Jon Fairhurst

May 6th, 2009, 09:31 PM	#7
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Hey Dennis great to see you on here. 5 years ago- wow. Was it from this board??? Very flattering indeed. Now I'm sure you have to look no further than Patrick...at least that's true for myself. Anyway- agreed some of those comments were uncalled for. Even mine being a bit borderline, my apologies. You guys make great products and I'm sure you know this but I recently invested in a Pegasus Heavy Lifter and two sets of rails from you guys. Earlier pining over going a less expensive route with the indislider and the like- I'm quite pleased with my decision. I was even able to use it on a shoot this past weekend for the first time and I loved the moving footage I was able to achieve with it, even the first time using it. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-eos...hts-shoot.html Tell Hubert I appreciate the excellent customer service and super fast turn-around! Especially considering he had to deal with me when I was aggravated after getting the rig and realizing I needed a ball attachment for the onboard bull! Anyway to make a long story short I just wanted to let others know that you guys have come a long way and are making some awesome products. I spent about 10 minutes drooling over your follow focus unit in the Video University section of your site. I also wanted to apologize for the other members rather rude comments about your product as well. The last thing I want is for the community to discourage you guys. I think you guys are an asset to the industry and appreciate all the time and effort you guys put into designing new products. I think it's great that there's another DSLR rig on the block it makes it better for all of us to have a wider selection to choose from. Keep up the great work and thank you kindly for the great experience I had doing business with you personally. __________________ Glen Elliott Cord 3 Films

May 6th, 2009, 09:52 PM	#8
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Dennis, I am curious how the shooter will get his eyes on the LCD. My experience is that you need something like a hood loupe to shoot in a lot of situations. The way the pic looks is that the camera is aligned with the rails makiing use of a hood loupe very difficult. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

May 6th, 2009, 08:20 AM	#5
Toenis Liivamaegi Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tartu, Estonia Posts: 579	Bloody hell, I saw this on the NAB pics but with all seriousness WTF is that? "Look mom I have a motorized head on my shoulder!" And still I see a mattebox with dual non-independently rotating trays (for grad and polarizer)? Those handles when compared to 15mm rod diametre are something like 20mm in dia. How well can you hold those gripsticks? Maybe it's time to mount 35mm magazine to the hotshoe of 5D just because it looks like something else than DSLR then? I truly respect all the DOF adaptor makers trying to survive the extinction of 35mm adaptor but hell, the market has exploded in different direction - it is mass market now. How short sighted are the small companies that are in the best possible position to sell thousands of items to this new market if they did even some online research on how to make things work with minimal effort. Cheers, T

May 6th, 2009, 05:49 PM	#6
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	Normally I would ignore posts like the ones above as I don't believe they reflect Chris Hurd's policy of mutual respect on the site. However there are a few things here that need to be set straight. Besides, Glenn, you deserve a polite answer :-) You probably don't recall this but 5 years ago I was inspired by your work in shooting my first (and only) wedding. The DSLR rig posted on our website is missing a price and description because Hubert posted it up yesterday and mistakenly left it online. You'll see it back up tomorrow...he's just learning that side of the business. To be perfectly clear, our DSLR shoot rigs are based completely on our Proteus carbon rails systems which have two patents pending at this point. They are highly regarded systems that have received very positive reviews from the likes of Phil Bloom (search his blog) and Matt Jeppsen over at FreshDV. We have not come up with marketing gimmicks, crap or otherwise as our system is based on tried, proven and true products already in use by our customers. The rails are solid carbon fiber, and all the parts 100% CNC machined aluminum. They are lifetime parts. The cage, shoulder mount and rails system have been configured as our shooters in the field prefer to use them. If you look on the cover of EventDV's April issue, you'll see Patrick Moreau's rig which is pretty much what you see in our catalog. His article on using the 5D MkII is in the article. The good news is that if you already own our Proteus 45cm rails and our shoulder mount kit, you've got pretty much everything you need. We will offer the kit with our Proteus cage and Durus follow focus as options simply because our shooters have expressly requested these options. The Durus follow focus is a very special product carying a lifetime warranty. It's made completely here in Canada and each unit is hand assembled by the machinists who make them. Currently, they're priced significantly below where they should be. Finally, following NAB, we've been overwhelmed with requests to arrange the existing components in kit form...hence the DSLR catalog entry. We shot the video segment today on the DSLR shoot rig and our modular swing-away mattebox. If the filter options are an issue, you'll want to wait for the upcoming 4x5.6 independent 3-tray module. These will be up early next week. If you're still skeptical, it would be good to mention that Canon USA chose to tour our booth at NAB with their VIP corporate group. Our remote focus controller was of special interest mounted on the Canon 5D MkII used with Patrick's Steadicam Flyer :-) Respectfully, Dennis Wood www.cinevate.com

May 6th, 2009, 10:07 PM	#9
Sean Seah Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,498	Thks for the new solution Dennis. I think it is good to have more choices anytime. It's a matter of personal preference on the solutions. Please keep up the good work and excellent service support. Cinevate wins my vote for one of the best service support for a non US/Canadian customer.

May 7th, 2009, 12:58 PM	#10
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	Glen, that picture should be in our catalog...I love it! I won't however show it to our insurance agent :-) I normally wouldn't mention a customer's relationship with us online, but now that you've mentioned it...I did notice (and remember) your name in the outgoing orders a few weeks ago. We have indeed worked very hard to elevate the company and it's service to the standard we feel shooters deserve. Your experience with us it what we're striving for with every customer, product and transaction. Thanks for saying thanks :-) Lou, typically the shooter's right or left eye ends up being just off axis to the camera...and so works great that way. The shoulder rig has nearly infinite variations so you can reconfig the shoulder mount to rest against your chest to keep the camera directly in front too. Chris is editing the DSLR piece as I type this so expect a Cinevate Video University update in a day or two. The video covers several different configurations as we outfit the rig. Cheers, Dennis Wood www.cinevate.com

May 9th, 2009, 12:50 AM	#11
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	The promised video overview and catalog entry are up. If anyone has things they'd like to see...we're always listening. Our record for taking a concept idea to production is 4 days so if there's a feature you'd like to see and it makes sense, we'll likely do it :-) Cheers, Dennis Wood www.cinevate.com

May 9th, 2009, 01:18 PM	#12
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Dennis: I still think you have to get the camera offset from the center of the rig, so shooter can get something like a Hoodman on it. The way it is set up, I don't see how it can be doable. I ghetto rigged something here: YouTube - Prototype Shoulder Brace For Canon 5D Mark II The big weak point with this camera is not being able focus. At this point, best method seems to be by magnifying viewof the LCD-- especially in hand held situation, Monitoring out will not work that well, because in goes out to SD during shooting. That is the challenge. If you are shoulder mounting, assumption is you want to be able to focus on the fly. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

May 9th, 2009, 08:03 PM	#14
Dan Chung Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Beijing Posts: 665	Glen, The Pegasus heavy lifter looks good, I'm amazed to see that you have it rigged to slide with the weight of a full Redrock rig on top! does it slide easily like that? There is no way my original Glidetrack would support that and still slide smoothly. I'm just watching the Cinevate video university video now. Dennis, I'd love to know if the bowl could be made to work with the head from my Miller DS20. Also I'd agree with Chris that it would be good to offer a system that allows the use of a Hoodloupe or Z-finder up to the eye. That said the new little Ikan 5.6 inch LCD would probably work well with your setup. Dan

May 9th, 2009, 08:11 PM	#15
Dan Chung Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Beijing Posts: 665	Ron and Toenis, Trust me these kind of rigs work, I use them all the time. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-eos...ii-photos.html Dan