Cinevate's new rig for the 5D2...

Dennis Wood · June 11th, 2009, 09:51 PM

Jason, thanks for that. Precious few have actually been in our facility, hands-on as you have :-)

We have been listening with regard to the shoot rig and have some very cool stuff in the pipe for the 5D. Among these is a new (simply amazing) cage purpose designed for this camera in hand held, shoulder or jib (yes jib!) use as well as an LCD enhancement based on what we've learned from the adapter world. Imagine an LCD twice the size of the stock one but using zero power and viewable with both eyes simultaneously..

Marcus Marchesseault · June 14th, 2009, 01:37 AM

I want a big fresnel magnifier on swingarms like in Terry Gilliam movies! If you can't do that, could you make it look like those 1950s-60s scifi binoculars where the eyepieces wrap around the temples? I want to wear the 5D like a giant Geordi LaForge visor!

Seriously, a magnifier with a larger viewing area would be nice as the houdloupe 3 has a very narrow viewpoint. It is nice for $80 but I don't like shooting with my eye socket glued to the camera.

Dennis Wood · June 14th, 2009, 08:46 AM

Ask and ye shall receive. The other thing folks have asked for is for a distance and height adjustable offset, the ability to easily configure either left or right shoulders, and the ability to view the viewfinder at an angle other than straight on...like a professional viewfinder. Because Cinevate's rig is based on our Proteus rails system, additions like this are super, super simple. As far as the optics, we've been developing specialized optics for nearly four years now :-) You'll see all of this as standard add-ons to our currently selling rig within the next month.

Cheers,
Dennis.

Dennis Wood · June 18th, 2009, 02:54 PM

We just finished testing with a very simply part (add-on) upon request from a few shooters (including this thread) which allows centering the viewfinder in front of the shooter's eyes. The part will be added to Cinevates DSLR shoot kit in about 5 days. Here's what it does:

1. Allows left or right shoulder mounting with offset adjustable from zero to six inches.

2. Tooless removal of the entire shoulder mount component in seconds for folks using either our Pegasus LTS systems, tripod or steadicam.

3. Adds another 3 inches of adjustment of the 5D (at any offset) vertically.

4. Allows locking the rig at any angle, including continuous pivot up or down while maintaining shoulder position. This feature allows releasing and folding the rig up for car travel.

5. Allows rearward rails use at any angle. This permits using our upcoming 12V battery supply as a nearly perfect 5D counterweight tucked against your back.

Best part, it only adds about $45 to the kit :-) A video going over the kit (and we're not showing you the XY kit yet) can be found at Cinevate's Video Univesity. Additionally we're shooting a comprehensive video in a few weeks with the Stillmotion crew showing the 5D being used on Steadicam, Pegasus LTS, tripod and hand held/shoulder mounted..all using the same rig.

Cheers,
Dennis.
www.cinevate.com

Jon Fairhurst · June 18th, 2009, 04:24 PM

That adjustment range makes a lot of sense, Dennis.

I made a homebuilt rig that is fixed for my personal comfort. It took me a few iterations to get it right. I'm amazed at how high and to the left of the shoulder that the camera needs to be so I can stand in a neutral position.

BTW, my rig is tooless too. It just doesn't happen to be adjustable. ;)

Dan Chung · June 18th, 2009, 04:42 PM

Dennis,

That sounds interesting, glad you have taken comments onboard about using the LCD screen with a loupe. Will you offset allow for use of bars, follow focus and mattebox like the Zacuto setups? and if so have you found an easy solution for how to extend a rails quickly for longer lenses when it is mounted in an offset position? So far the only solution for this seems to be the Genus advanced adapter bars, does your rig do something similar?

Dan

Dennis Wood · June 19th, 2009, 09:58 PM

I'll show you sneak peak likely mid-week. The thing I like best about the rig is that it can of course be used with zero effect on the mattebox and follow focus out front. I spent about 16 hours shooting with the 5D MKII on the weekend..but unlike my previous two months of use, this was all video. Manual control was the one thing I really needed before shooting video. Aside from steadicam use, I used the rig with one lens (the 24-70mm f2.8L), our Durus FF, Proteus rails/grips, Titan swing-away matte box and full shoulder kit with a 12V brick rails-mounted hugging my back. Btw, Dan our "loupe" solution is not a loupe! You guys will love it.

One of the things that our shooters out there (always pushing us onward!) demand is the ability to go from shoulder, to steadicam, to tripod, to our Pegasus LTS systems and soon, to jibs in seconds, without tools. This means when switching modes that the follow focus, mattebox and cage must remain in place, and the rig must remain balanced with tripod mount point at the "zero" balance point. This rig does that and if you were using quick-release plates on your equipment, the only rig change would be about 5 seconds to remove the shoulder component. On jibs, using our cage for mounting (more on that in a few weeks), you could simply fold the shoulder rig underneath and lock it at the balance point.

Truthfully, I'd still take an EX1 and our adapter using Zeiss glass in 24p over the 5D for filmic imagery. After studying a ton of footage I finally figured out what was bothering me. The 5D MKII has great bokeh with the 24-70 f2.8L clicked in a few stops (as it should!!) however the in-focus portions of the frame have a cold feel to them. Like film emulsion, a 35mm adapter adds a few microns of depth in the focus field that a CCD or CMOS cannot reproduce, regardless of DOF. That said, my next vacation equipment list will only have 4 items: The 5D with the 24-70 f2.8L, Rhode VM, our shoot rig, and a small hand-held stabilizer. It's not often that I get excited about a project but this one has me going :-) More coming mid-week.

Cheers,
Dennis.

Dan Chung · June 20th, 2009, 03:15 AM

Dennis,

I'm intrigued, still not sure you got my question though. Do you have a way to quickly rebalance and re-align a 5DmkII rig when you change from say a 28mm lens to an 80-200mm? while used in the offset position? This is the biggest challenge to offset rigs that I have found as you can't just move the camera further back along the rails to allow for the extra length.

I agree with you that raw 5dmkII footage doesn't have the same 'feel' as adapter footage. I do wonder whether its because the ground glass, like film, is a slight degradation (call it film emulsion depth) of the image which we actually got used to and like. The same is true in stills cameras and the debate still rages between the 'film' look fans and digital purists. Have you tried the Zeiss glass on the 5dmkII yet? it may go some way to closing the gap.

Oddly I just got nominated for an award for the only film I ever shot using a Brevis and an EX-1 before I moved over to the Redrockmicro Encore M2. One World Media :: Shortlist So I guess what I though was not a great investment actually paid off!

Dan

Dan Chung · June 20th, 2009, 03:19 AM

Forgot to add this, the Genus rig works like this.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachmen...-genus1low.jpg

Dan

Jim Froom · June 20th, 2009, 07:55 AM

Dennis, I was pretty good with math in school. 1+1-2. right?

I'm not a fortune teller, but I'm guessing the following guess is something that you have guessed.

One day while goofing around, I took my Cinevate 72mm achromat and held it about 1 1/2 to 2 inches in front of my 5D lcd. Guess what, I can get real nice focus with that image when shooting. Didn't try mounting it, so not sure if my eye as to be in the same position while shooting, but it looked promising.

Now the question to Dennis is, how are you going to mount that bad boy?
Since you made a flip unit for the Brevis, when are you going to make a swivel unit for your new 5D achromat viewer for the 5d?

I'm hoping you find a less expensive achromat to use.

I almost called the other day to see if I could buy a flawed achromat from you.

How's my guess work?

PS, if you haven't thought of this, I'll take the beta unit for free as my consulting fee.

Dennis Wood · June 22nd, 2009, 07:39 PM

Jim, there's more. We just announced a price reduction across the board on the MP.2 adapter series based on implementation of volume production on these items.

With respect to our optics, keep in mind that our 72mm flip or non-flip achromat is a very high quality macro lens that works beautifullly attached to any SLR lens via its 72mm threads. Now what if you could purchase this lens for use out in front as a macro, or behind the camera body for use on your LCD?

Hmm, and low angle shots with the 5D, lying on your belly kind of suck too :-)

Dan Chung · June 23rd, 2009, 05:43 AM

Dennis,
Wouldn't using an achromat be far heavier than a loupe solution? I played with achromats before settling for a loupe because of weight issues. A fully loaded 5dmkII rig already weighs a lot and needs a fair amount of counterbalancing.

Dan

Chris Barcellos · June 23rd, 2009, 10:23 AM

In my improvised loupe, I used a small objective from Surplus Shed that was being recommended by Daniel of DIY adapter fame. I am findining that with it, and my readers, I can get a pretty crisp look at the LCD.

Dennis Wood · June 24th, 2009, 02:14 PM

The message we've got loud and clear is that folks shooting at strange angles and distances don't want a viewfinder. They want a multi-angle solution that can be viewed from 3 to 16 inches from the camera. We think it's kind of cool that you end up with a pretty amazing 72mm macro lens too. On the weight issue, the camera needs it, particularly if you're on steadicam! I just chatted with a fellow who actually requested a weight kit for the 5D. In Patrick's case (stillmotion) he flies with our Titan swing away mattebox and Proteus cage configured in what he calls "the perfect 5D flying rig". On our DSLR rig with it's rear projecting rails (at any angle), we strongly suggest using a counterweight which of course can be quicky removed ( about 5 seconds) for steadicam use. In our case I was using our 12V rails mounted power supply. Once the rig is set up like this, I found I could shoot very stable for hours without forearm fatigue. And sadly, I'm hardly an example of fitness these days :-) But that's another story...

Dennis Wood · July 16th, 2009, 11:39 AM

As promised, the DSLR XY offset is finished field testing and now included as part of our DSLR rig. This addition allows up to 7 inches or so of offset left or right and the ablity to adjust the camera rails height +- 1.5 inches. It also allows you to lock the removeable shoulder component at any angle for shooting from the shoulder, hip or as a ground support. We just finished a crazy two days shooting with Patrick, Konrad and Michael from Stillmotion as part of the promotion for the new kit. I won't say much now other than it was a lot of fun, Michael was shot several times with projectiles at 200 mph, and one Steadicam flyer with our full rig ended up in two pieces after a "mishap". I should say that our DSLR rig and Titan mattebox took the hit and were used for the balance of the shoot :-)

If you stay tuned over the next week or so, you can expect a launch of the new DSLR rig, free stuff, and "Medusa" + "Atlas"...two things you've never seen before.

June 18th, 2009, 04:24 PM	#35
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	That adjustment range makes a lot of sense, Dennis. I made a homebuilt rig that is fixed for my personal comfort. It took me a few iterations to get it right. I'm amazed at how high and to the left of the shoulder that the camera needs to be so I can stand in a neutral position. BTW, my rig is tooless too. It just doesn't happen to be adjustable. ;) __________________ Jon Fairhurst

June 23rd, 2009, 10:23 AM	#43
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	In my improvised loupe, I used a small objective from Surplus Shed that was being recommended by Daniel of DIY adapter fame. I am findining that with it, and my readers, I can get a pretty crisp look at the LCD. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

June 11th, 2009, 09:51 PM	#31
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	Jason, thanks for that. Precious few have actually been in our facility, hands-on as you have :-) We have been listening with regard to the shoot rig and have some very cool stuff in the pipe for the 5D. Among these is a new (simply amazing) cage purpose designed for this camera in hand held, shoulder or jib (yes jib!) use as well as an LCD enhancement based on what we've learned from the adapter world. Imagine an LCD twice the size of the stock one but using zero power and viewable with both eyes simultaneously..

June 14th, 2009, 01:37 AM	#32
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	I want a big fresnel magnifier on swingarms like in Terry Gilliam movies! If you can't do that, could you make it look like those 1950s-60s scifi binoculars where the eyepieces wrap around the temples? I want to wear the 5D like a giant Geordi LaForge visor! Seriously, a magnifier with a larger viewing area would be nice as the houdloupe 3 has a very narrow viewpoint. It is nice for $80 but I don't like shooting with my eye socket glued to the camera.

June 14th, 2009, 08:46 AM	#33
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	Ask and ye shall receive. The other thing folks have asked for is for a distance and height adjustable offset, the ability to easily configure either left or right shoulders, and the ability to view the viewfinder at an angle other than straight on...like a professional viewfinder. Because Cinevate's rig is based on our Proteus rails system, additions like this are super, super simple. As far as the optics, we've been developing specialized optics for nearly four years now :-) You'll see all of this as standard add-ons to our currently selling rig within the next month. Cheers, Dennis.

June 18th, 2009, 02:54 PM	#34
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	We just finished testing with a very simply part (add-on) upon request from a few shooters (including this thread) which allows centering the viewfinder in front of the shooter's eyes. The part will be added to Cinevates DSLR shoot kit in about 5 days. Here's what it does: 1. Allows left or right shoulder mounting with offset adjustable from zero to six inches. 2. Tooless removal of the entire shoulder mount component in seconds for folks using either our Pegasus LTS systems, tripod or steadicam. 3. Adds another 3 inches of adjustment of the 5D (at any offset) vertically. 4. Allows locking the rig at any angle, including continuous pivot up or down while maintaining shoulder position. This feature allows releasing and folding the rig up for car travel. 5. Allows rearward rails use at any angle. This permits using our upcoming 12V battery supply as a nearly perfect 5D counterweight tucked against your back. Best part, it only adds about $45 to the kit :-) A video going over the kit (and we're not showing you the XY kit yet) can be found at Cinevate's Video Univesity. Additionally we're shooting a comprehensive video in a few weeks with the Stillmotion crew showing the 5D being used on Steadicam, Pegasus LTS, tripod and hand held/shoulder mounted..all using the same rig. Cheers, Dennis. www.cinevate.com

June 18th, 2009, 04:42 PM	#36
Dan Chung Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Beijing Posts: 665	Dennis, That sounds interesting, glad you have taken comments onboard about using the LCD screen with a loupe. Will you offset allow for use of bars, follow focus and mattebox like the Zacuto setups? and if so have you found an easy solution for how to extend a rails quickly for longer lenses when it is mounted in an offset position? So far the only solution for this seems to be the Genus advanced adapter bars, does your rig do something similar? Dan

June 19th, 2009, 09:58 PM	#37
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	I'll show you sneak peak likely mid-week. The thing I like best about the rig is that it can of course be used with zero effect on the mattebox and follow focus out front. I spent about 16 hours shooting with the 5D MKII on the weekend..but unlike my previous two months of use, this was all video. Manual control was the one thing I really needed before shooting video. Aside from steadicam use, I used the rig with one lens (the 24-70mm f2.8L), our Durus FF, Proteus rails/grips, Titan swing-away matte box and full shoulder kit with a 12V brick rails-mounted hugging my back. Btw, Dan our "loupe" solution is not a loupe! You guys will love it. One of the things that our shooters out there (always pushing us onward!) demand is the ability to go from shoulder, to steadicam, to tripod, to our Pegasus LTS systems and soon, to jibs in seconds, without tools. This means when switching modes that the follow focus, mattebox and cage must remain in place, and the rig must remain balanced with tripod mount point at the "zero" balance point. This rig does that and if you were using quick-release plates on your equipment, the only rig change would be about 5 seconds to remove the shoulder component. On jibs, using our cage for mounting (more on that in a few weeks), you could simply fold the shoulder rig underneath and lock it at the balance point. Truthfully, I'd still take an EX1 and our adapter using Zeiss glass in 24p over the 5D for filmic imagery. After studying a ton of footage I finally figured out what was bothering me. The 5D MKII has great bokeh with the 24-70 f2.8L clicked in a few stops (as it should!!) however the in-focus portions of the frame have a cold feel to them. Like film emulsion, a 35mm adapter adds a few microns of depth in the focus field that a CCD or CMOS cannot reproduce, regardless of DOF. That said, my next vacation equipment list will only have 4 items: The 5D with the 24-70 f2.8L, Rhode VM, our shoot rig, and a small hand-held stabilizer. It's not often that I get excited about a project but this one has me going :-) More coming mid-week. Cheers, Dennis.

June 20th, 2009, 03:15 AM	#38
Dan Chung Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Beijing Posts: 665	Dennis, I'm intrigued, still not sure you got my question though. Do you have a way to quickly rebalance and re-align a 5DmkII rig when you change from say a 28mm lens to an 80-200mm? while used in the offset position? This is the biggest challenge to offset rigs that I have found as you can't just move the camera further back along the rails to allow for the extra length. I agree with you that raw 5dmkII footage doesn't have the same 'feel' as adapter footage. I do wonder whether its because the ground glass, like film, is a slight degradation (call it film emulsion depth) of the image which we actually got used to and like. The same is true in stills cameras and the debate still rages between the 'film' look fans and digital purists. Have you tried the Zeiss glass on the 5dmkII yet? it may go some way to closing the gap. Oddly I just got nominated for an award for the only film I ever shot using a Brevis and an EX-1 before I moved over to the Redrockmicro Encore M2. One World Media :: Shortlist So I guess what I though was not a great investment actually paid off! Dan

June 20th, 2009, 03:19 AM	#39
Dan Chung Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Beijing Posts: 665	Forgot to add this, the Genus rig works like this. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachmen...-genus1low.jpg Dan

June 20th, 2009, 07:55 AM	#40
Jim Froom Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Rochester, NY usa Posts: 75	Dennis, I was pretty good with math in school. 1+1-2. right? I'm not a fortune teller, but I'm guessing the following guess is something that you have guessed. One day while goofing around, I took my Cinevate 72mm achromat and held it about 1 1/2 to 2 inches in front of my 5D lcd. Guess what, I can get real nice focus with that image when shooting. Didn't try mounting it, so not sure if my eye as to be in the same position while shooting, but it looked promising. Now the question to Dennis is, how are you going to mount that bad boy? Since you made a flip unit for the Brevis, when are you going to make a swivel unit for your new 5D achromat viewer for the 5d? I'm hoping you find a less expensive achromat to use. I almost called the other day to see if I could buy a flawed achromat from you. How's my guess work? PS, if you haven't thought of this, I'll take the beta unit for free as my consulting fee.

June 22nd, 2009, 07:39 PM	#41
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	Jim, there's more. We just announced a price reduction across the board on the MP.2 adapter series based on implementation of volume production on these items. With respect to our optics, keep in mind that our 72mm flip or non-flip achromat is a very high quality macro lens that works beautifullly attached to any SLR lens via its 72mm threads. Now what if you could purchase this lens for use out in front as a macro, or behind the camera body for use on your LCD? Hmm, and low angle shots with the 5D, lying on your belly kind of suck too :-)

June 23rd, 2009, 05:43 AM	#42
Dan Chung Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Beijing Posts: 665	Dennis, Wouldn't using an achromat be far heavier than a loupe solution? I played with achromats before settling for a loupe because of weight issues. A fully loaded 5dmkII rig already weighs a lot and needs a fair amount of counterbalancing. Dan

June 24th, 2009, 02:14 PM	#44
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	The message we've got loud and clear is that folks shooting at strange angles and distances don't want a viewfinder. They want a multi-angle solution that can be viewed from 3 to 16 inches from the camera. We think it's kind of cool that you end up with a pretty amazing 72mm macro lens too. On the weight issue, the camera needs it, particularly if you're on steadicam! I just chatted with a fellow who actually requested a weight kit for the 5D. In Patrick's case (stillmotion) he flies with our Titan swing away mattebox and Proteus cage configured in what he calls "the perfect 5D flying rig". On our DSLR rig with it's rear projecting rails (at any angle), we strongly suggest using a counterweight which of course can be quicky removed ( about 5 seconds) for steadicam use. In our case I was using our 12V rails mounted power supply. Once the rig is set up like this, I found I could shoot very stable for hours without forearm fatigue. And sadly, I'm hardly an example of fitness these days :-) But that's another story...

July 16th, 2009, 11:39 AM	#45
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	As promised, the DSLR XY offset is finished field testing and now included as part of our DSLR rig. This addition allows up to 7 inches or so of offset left or right and the ablity to adjust the camera rails height +- 1.5 inches. It also allows you to lock the removeable shoulder component at any angle for shooting from the shoulder, hip or as a ground support. We just finished a crazy two days shooting with Patrick, Konrad and Michael from Stillmotion as part of the promotion for the new kit. I won't say much now other than it was a lot of fun, Michael was shot several times with projectiles at 200 mph, and one Steadicam flyer with our full rig ended up in two pieces after a "mishap". I should say that our DSLR rig and Titan mattebox took the hit and were used for the balance of the shoot :-) If you stay tuned over the next week or so, you can expect a launch of the new DSLR rig, free stuff, and "Medusa" + "Atlas"...two things you've never seen before.