Audio solution...? at DVinfo.net

Peer Landa · April 14th, 2009, 09:17 AM

While patiently counting down to next week's NAB show, the more I read up on the missing & crippled features on the 5D, the more my expectations recede that we'll ever see Canon fixing the 5D's shortcomings, (I even tried to design a bypass device for the AGC using a dog-trainer's subsonic oscillator..).

So, I've now more or less thrown in the towel as I'm about to get this recorder H4n Handy Recorder and use its line-outputs to feed the 5D as a guide-track and then "clapperboard" sync it for the real recording in post.

However, I still would immensly appreciate it if someone could talk me out of this, (with a good/sane reason, of course -- or better yet, come up with a better solution).

-- peer

Jon Carr · April 14th, 2009, 10:28 AM

Have you checked out the Beachtek device coming out at the end of May?

BeachTek DXA-5D XLR adapter for DSLR Cameras

Lars T. Therkildsen · April 14th, 2009, 10:42 AM

Peer: Do not buy a Zoom recorder, there's many well documented issues with the sync of the device.

We bought the regular H4 for our 5d mark II, and I just found out about the syncing problems. With everything 20 minutes, it is 3 seconds too slow. Now, the audio is really great on it, but these syncing problems makes it largely useless for video.

The issues seems to be the internal time/clock in the recorder, and again it's widely documented.

Jay Bloomfield · April 14th, 2009, 10:56 AM

Are you sure that the sync issue is still present with the H4n?

Zoom Gear & Home Recording Forum • View topic - H4n tests and results: input level, sync, quality

Lars T. Therkildsen · April 14th, 2009, 12:48 PM

No not at all... sounds like they fixed it, but the issue was there on both the h2 and h4, so I just wanted to warn Peer, that Zoom isn't exactly the safe bet. But hopefully they fixed the problem with the h4n, it looks like it.

Personally I would just be really sure that the H4N is a-okay :)

Jim Miller · April 14th, 2009, 01:45 PM

I use the Zoom H4N to sync with my 5d with no problems. To be fair, my clips are rarely more than 10 mins long so I can't speak to how it may move out of sync over longer periods. I am currently using it to record dialog for a TV show pilot but the individual scenes are short.

Bill Binder · April 14th, 2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lars T. Therkildsen

Peer: Do not buy a Zoom recorder, there's many well documented issues with the sync of the device.

We bought the regular H4 for our 5d mark II, and I just found out about the syncing problems. With everything 20 minutes, it is 3 seconds too slow. Now, the audio is really great on it, but these syncing problems makes it largely useless for video.

The issues seems to be the internal time/clock in the recorder, and again it's widely documented.

Actually, that could happen with almost any recorder -- even the most pro ones -- if not jam syncing (which the 5D2 can't do anyway). Pretty much ALL RECORDERS will drift to some extent large or tiny, even recorders that are the same make and model. That's not to say some may drift more than others, but that's just as much a function of the other device (the 5D2 in this example) as it is with the audio recorder (the zoom in this case).

David Koo · April 15th, 2009, 04:48 AM

I have the Zoom H4 and have not had any sync problems with the 5D2. I am using Final Cut Pro, transcoding the 5D2 footage to 720p30 (29.97), recording the audio on the Zoom H4 as a wave file using 48 Khz and 16-bit recording, and then transcoding the audio to AIFF (keeping it 48 Khz and 16-bit). I previously had sync issues when I was recording at 44 Khz instead of 48 Khz. With my current workflow, my sync has been VERY good. Hope this helps. But I have a feeling that sync issues are EXTREMELY complicated and can arise anywhere from the recorder settings, transcode settings, video edit software, etc...

Randy Panado · April 15th, 2009, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Carr

Have you checked out the Beachtek device coming out at the end of May?

BeachTek DXA-5D XLR adapter for DSLR Cameras

Thanks for the link. Haven't seen that device yet. Pretty sweet.

Joshua Fulton · April 15th, 2009, 09:24 AM

I bought a Zoom H4 (right before the H4n came out) in order to help record audio with a 5d that I plan on buying. This stuff about video being usuable worries me ...to say the least. I don't want useless video.

Does anyone have any tips or advice? I can try to sell my H4 and buy the H4n, or if anyone has a description of steps for syncing things with the H4 that'd be great. (David's description is great, but I don't use Final Cut and I wonder if that makes a difference.)

Thanks.

Jon Fairhurst · April 15th, 2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Fulton

...This stuff about video being usuable worries me ...to say the least. I don't want useless video.

If you use Vegas, it's really easy to stretch/squeeze the audio to match the video. Get the start of the clip sync'd. Check the end of the clip. If not sync'd, hold the Ctrl key and drag/drop the end of your audio clip as needed.

Joshua Fulton · April 15th, 2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

If you use Vegas, it's really easy to stretch/squeeze the audio to match the video.

I do use Vegas! Thanks.

April 14th, 2009, 09:17 AM	#1
Peer Landa Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Norwegian lost in California Posts: 890	Audio solution...? While patiently counting down to next week's NAB show, the more I read up on the missing & crippled features on the 5D, the more my expectations recede that we'll ever see Canon fixing the 5D's shortcomings, (I even tried to design a bypass device for the AGC using a dog-trainer's subsonic oscillator..). So, I've now more or less thrown in the towel as I'm about to get this recorder H4n Handy Recorder and use its line-outputs to feed the 5D as a guide-track and then "clapperboard" sync it for the real recording in post. However, I still would immensly appreciate it if someone could talk me out of this, (with a good/sane reason, of course -- or better yet, come up with a better solution). -- peer __________________ www.NoPEER.com

April 14th, 2009, 10:28 AM	#2
Jon Carr Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: San Francisco Posts: 35	Beacktek Device for 5D Have you checked out the Beachtek device coming out at the end of May? BeachTek DXA-5D XLR adapter for DSLR Cameras

April 14th, 2009, 10:42 AM	#3
Lars T. Therkildsen New Boot Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Aarhus, Denmark Posts: 15	Peer: Do not buy a Zoom recorder, there's many well documented issues with the sync of the device. We bought the regular H4 for our 5d mark II, and I just found out about the syncing problems. With everything 20 minutes, it is 3 seconds too slow. Now, the audio is really great on it, but these syncing problems makes it largely useless for video. The issues seems to be the internal time/clock in the recorder, and again it's widely documented.

April 14th, 2009, 10:56 AM	#4
Jay Bloomfield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Voorheesville, NY Posts: 433	Are you sure that the sync issue is still present with the H4n? Zoom Gear & Home Recording Forum • View topic - H4n tests and results: input level, sync, quality

April 14th, 2009, 12:48 PM	#5
Lars T. Therkildsen New Boot Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Aarhus, Denmark Posts: 15	No not at all... sounds like they fixed it, but the issue was there on both the h2 and h4, so I just wanted to warn Peer, that Zoom isn't exactly the safe bet. But hopefully they fixed the problem with the h4n, it looks like it. Personally I would just be really sure that the H4N is a-okay :)

April 14th, 2009, 01:45 PM	#6
Jim Miller Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tampa,Florida Posts: 236	I use the Zoom H4N to sync with my 5d with no problems. To be fair, my clips are rarely more than 10 mins long so I can't speak to how it may move out of sync over longer periods. I am currently using it to record dialog for a TV show pilot but the individual scenes are short.

April 15th, 2009, 04:48 AM	#8
David Koo Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 51	I have the Zoom H4 and have not had any sync problems with the 5D2. I am using Final Cut Pro, transcoding the 5D2 footage to 720p30 (29.97), recording the audio on the Zoom H4 as a wave file using 48 Khz and 16-bit recording, and then transcoding the audio to AIFF (keeping it 48 Khz and 16-bit). I previously had sync issues when I was recording at 44 Khz instead of 48 Khz. With my current workflow, my sync has been VERY good. Hope this helps. But I have a feeling that sync issues are EXTREMELY complicated and can arise anywhere from the recorder settings, transcode settings, video edit software, etc...

April 15th, 2009, 09:24 AM	#10
Joshua Fulton Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Union Co., New Jersey Posts: 26	I bought a Zoom H4 (right before the H4n came out) in order to help record audio with a 5d that I plan on buying. This stuff about video being usuable worries me ...to say the least. I don't want useless video. Does anyone have any tips or advice? I can try to sell my H4 and buy the H4n, or if anyone has a description of steps for syncing things with the H4 that'd be great. (David's description is great, but I don't use Final Cut and I wonder if that makes a difference.) Thanks.