I need a quick idiot proof guide to night shooting! at DVinfo.net

Chris Higgins · April 13th, 2009, 01:35 PM

I am off to Disney World this week with my 5d2 and 24-105 lens. I want to do a bunch of shooting at night of fireworks and other fun stuff. All the low light videos I have done so far have been extremely grainy especially compared to some of the test stuff I have seen online. Does anyone have any tips for me to get me on my way to nice clean videos with this set up? I am going to pick up a tripod tomorrow so I will have that but I really need some basic instructions for night shooting cause so far I am getting sub-par results.
Thanks!!
Chris

Jon Fairhurst · April 13th, 2009, 02:14 PM

The best thing to do is to get a fast prime lens or two. Yours is an f/4, right? You can buy a 50mm f/1.8 new for $90 in the states. The 28mm f/1.8, 50mm f/1.4 and 85mm f/1.8 are also nice, but closer to $400 each.

Another option is renting (probably before you leave, I don't know if shops will rent to people without US addresses.) If you rent, you can probably afford the 24mm f/1.4L, 50mm f/1.2L and/or the 85mm f/1.2L. The results with your lens, compared to these fast primes will be, well, night and day.

Daniel Browning · April 13th, 2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Higgins

All the low light videos I have done so far have been extremely grainy especially compared to some of the test stuff I have seen online.

All the stuff you saw online was probably f/1.2 or f/1.4. I find that my XH-A1 at f/1.6 can match the 5D2 at f/4, so if you're expecting better-than-3-chip performance, I suggest something wider than f/4.

Dylan Couper · April 13th, 2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Higgins

I am off to Disney World this week with my 5d2 and 24-105 lens. I want to do a bunch of shooting at night of fireworks and other fun stuff. All the low light videos I have done so far have been extremely grainy especially compared to some of the test stuff I have seen online. Does anyone have any tips for me to get me on my way to nice clean videos with this set up? I am going to pick up a tripod tomorrow so I will have that but I really need some basic instructions for night shooting cause so far I am getting sub-par results.
Thanks!!
Chris

I went through the same thing. The only option for night shooting noise free is to use fast glass. The 24-105 won't cut it. f2.8 is still rough sometimes. I'd buy at least the 50mm f1.8... but only in a manual Nikon mount so you can lock it open. The 5D2 makes some bad choices on its own.

Thomas Lowe · April 13th, 2009, 05:25 PM

don't use any filters of any kind.

Jon Fairhurst · April 13th, 2009, 05:29 PM

For low light, a Canon lens is fine. Just dial the exposure compensation all the way up, cover the lens with your hand for a few seconds, and lock the exposure. That will set the aperture wide open and the ISO to 3200. Don't worry about the shutter. It's always going to be near 1/30 in low light. Now dial the exposure compensation (Big Wheel) down to the ISO that you really want.

Granted, a Nikon is simpler if, say, you want to stop down a bit to sharpen things up, deepen the field, and spice up the corners. Just grab the aperture ring and go. But a Canon lens isn't hard to control for low light.

Alex Chong · April 13th, 2009, 05:58 PM

I am getting the same problem sometimes with my 5d2 and 1.8 50mm II lens. At wide open and high ISO (say around 1000) my night shot is grainy near the all black and bright area. Looks ok on the LCD but terrible on my Bravia S 40". I had to stop down the aperture to 400 or below to reduce the grains but then I get the problem of the black area really black and the bright area bright.

I tested a shot similar to the one done by Vincent L where the man is lying on his couch and the crew used a TV screen to play around with flickering light. I can get the effect but still grainy. If I use a low ISO, the scene is too dark.

So what gives?

Dylan Couper · April 13th, 2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Chong

I tested a shot similar to the one done by Vincent L where the man is lying on his couch and the crew used a TV screen to play around with flickering light. I can get the effect but still grainy. If I use a low ISO, the scene is too dark.

So what gives?

Vincent L had a $2000 f1.2 lens and you don't? :)

You should trick it into exposing a bit darker but clean, then push it in post.

Chris Higgins · April 13th, 2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

For low light, a Canon lens is fine. Just dial the exposure compensation all the way up, cover the lens with your hand for a few seconds, and lock the exposure. That will set the aperture wide open and the ISO to 3200. Don't worry about the shutter. It's always going to be near 1/30 in low light. Now dial the exposure compensation (Big Wheel) down to the ISO that you really want.

Granted, a Nikon is simpler if, say, you want to stop down a bit to sharpen things up, deepen the field, and spice up the corners. Just grab the aperture ring and go. But a Canon lens isn't hard to control for low light.

Thanks for that. I tried it out(hopefully the right way) and I think it made a difference so I am happy!
Just a question though, am I supposed to put it in live view and then do this and then press the button to start shooting or should I do it all before I put the camera into live view?
Thanks again!

Jon Fairhurst · April 13th, 2009, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Higgins

...am I supposed to put it in live view and then do this and then press the button to start shooting or should I do it all before I put the camera into live view?

Yes, Chris, you always need to do this after you enter Live View - and you have to repeat before recording each clip. Glad it worked for you!

Nigel Barker · April 14th, 2009, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Higgins

Just a question though, am I supposed to put it in live view and then do this and then press the button to start shooting or should I do it all before I put the camera into live view?

It's only in Live View that these instructions make any sense as you can't shoot movies in anything but Live Mode.

I too got the 24-105 F4L with my 5DII. It's a great lens, the image stabilisation in particular works well but for night shooting F4 is far too small. I now have a 24mm F1.4L which gives me the sorts of shots that I was hoping for after seeing 'Reverie' whereas the F4 is far too grainy. If you find the Canon lens is too expensive then I also have a very nice Nikon 50mm F1.2 that I bought on eBay for 125 pounds that does a good job.

Don't forget to do your focusing before you start shooting as focusing in the dark can be difficult & autofocusing doesn't work the same in Live View. The 5x & 10x magnification button is a great help when setting up your shot.

Finally don't forget to use the Exposure Lock button when you don't want it to fluctuate with changing light levels. However the auto mode does do a very good job & you shouldn't be afraid to use it especially as you can see in the large sharp viewfinder exactly what is being recorded. For night shooting the Canon lens will be wide open in any case, the shutter speed is to all intents & purposes fixed at 1/30 so the ISO is only variable. Point the camera at the area that you want the exposure set for & then lock it then use the +2/-2 exposure compensation to adjust while shooting.

Cheers

Nigel

Ray Bell · April 14th, 2009, 05:03 AM

These are the lenses used by Vincent... and the reference... Canon Digital Learning Center - Life After Reverie: A One-on-One Interview with Vincent Laforet

" The lenses I picked ranged from the 15mm Fisheye, on the hood of the car, to the EF 16-35mm f/2.8L on the helicopter, to the EF 50mm f/1.2L for a lot of shots, like the one of the man running out of the car when he pulls into focus. I used to the EF 85mm f/1.2L for the shot of him on the couch when he is waking up and in the bathroom splashing his face, and also the EF 200mm f/2L, which was used for quite a few shots. A lot of them didn't make it in but they were some of the most beautiful shots. Then we used an EF 500mm f/4L for the moon shot, in the end credits, and a 7.5mm Ultra Fisheye that I don't think in the end ever made it into the movie.
Most of those are the exact same lenses I use every day, the only exception is that I don't use a 200mm f/2L that much or the 15mm Fisheye. I tend not to like fisheye stuff too much -- I think it looks great for film, though. And the 200mm f/2L is such a specialty lens, that you’d pull it out one or two times a year. It makes the most amazing images, but more often than not you’re shooting with a 300mm, 400mm, or 500mm lens. "

Alex Chong · April 14th, 2009, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan Couper

Vincent L had a $2000 f1.2 lens and you don't? :)

You should trick it into exposing a bit darker but clean, then push it in post.

Ok. Glad to know its everything to do with the lens.

Dylan Couper · April 14th, 2009, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Higgins

Just a question though, am I supposed to put it in live view and then do this and then press the button to start shooting or should I do it all before I put the camera into live view?
Thanks again!

Part of the trick to working with the 5D2 is to create a routine every time you take a shot.
Like: expose diretly to light/dark target... lock exposure... dial exposure up/down to match maximum desireable, ISO... roll camera!

Nigel Barker · April 14th, 2009, 07:53 AM

Don't get too hung up on using the Exposure Lock & other complications. According to Vincent Laforet in the interview on the Canon site linked above they didn't discover that button while shooting 'Reverie'. They were using with a prototype they borrowed for the weekend & lacking a manual basically just used it as a 'point & shoot' the only control available was the +/- exposure compensation dial.

Cheers

Nigel

April 13th, 2009, 01:35 PM	#1
Chris Higgins Tourist Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: London Posts: 3	I need a quick idiot proof guide to night shooting! I am off to Disney World this week with my 5d2 and 24-105 lens. I want to do a bunch of shooting at night of fireworks and other fun stuff. All the low light videos I have done so far have been extremely grainy especially compared to some of the test stuff I have seen online. Does anyone have any tips for me to get me on my way to nice clean videos with this set up? I am going to pick up a tripod tomorrow so I will have that but I really need some basic instructions for night shooting cause so far I am getting sub-par results. Thanks!! Chris

April 13th, 2009, 02:14 PM	#2
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	The best thing to do is to get a fast prime lens or two. Yours is an f/4, right? You can buy a 50mm f/1.8 new for $90 in the states. The 28mm f/1.8, 50mm f/1.4 and 85mm f/1.8 are also nice, but closer to $400 each. Another option is renting (probably before you leave, I don't know if shops will rent to people without US addresses.) If you rent, you can probably afford the 24mm f/1.4L, 50mm f/1.2L and/or the 85mm f/1.2L. The results with your lens, compared to these fast primes will be, well, night and day. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

April 13th, 2009, 05:29 PM	#6
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	For low light, a Canon lens is fine. Just dial the exposure compensation all the way up, cover the lens with your hand for a few seconds, and lock the exposure. That will set the aperture wide open and the ISO to 3200. Don't worry about the shutter. It's always going to be near 1/30 in low light. Now dial the exposure compensation (Big Wheel) down to the ISO that you really want. Granted, a Nikon is simpler if, say, you want to stop down a bit to sharpen things up, deepen the field, and spice up the corners. Just grab the aperture ring and go. But a Canon lens isn't hard to control for low light. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

April 13th, 2009, 05:25 PM	#5
Thomas Lowe Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 33	don't use any filters of any kind.

April 13th, 2009, 05:58 PM	#7
Alex Chong Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Brunei Posts: 140	I am getting the same problem sometimes with my 5d2 and 1.8 50mm II lens. At wide open and high ISO (say around 1000) my night shot is grainy near the all black and bright area. Looks ok on the LCD but terrible on my Bravia S 40". I had to stop down the aperture to 400 or below to reduce the grains but then I get the problem of the black area really black and the bright area bright. I tested a shot similar to the one done by Vincent L where the man is lying on his couch and the crew used a TV screen to play around with flickering light. I can get the effect but still grainy. If I use a low ISO, the scene is too dark. So what gives?

April 14th, 2009, 05:03 AM	#12
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	These are the lenses used by Vincent... and the reference... Canon Digital Learning Center - Life After Reverie: A One-on-One Interview with Vincent Laforet " The lenses I picked ranged from the 15mm Fisheye, on the hood of the car, to the EF 16-35mm f/2.8L on the helicopter, to the EF 50mm f/1.2L for a lot of shots, like the one of the man running out of the car when he pulls into focus. I used to the EF 85mm f/1.2L for the shot of him on the couch when he is waking up and in the bathroom splashing his face, and also the EF 200mm f/2L, which was used for quite a few shots. A lot of them didn't make it in but they were some of the most beautiful shots. Then we used an EF 500mm f/4L for the moon shot, in the end credits, and a 7.5mm Ultra Fisheye that I don't think in the end ever made it into the movie. Most of those are the exact same lenses I use every day, the only exception is that I don't use a 200mm f/2L that much or the 15mm Fisheye. I tend not to like fisheye stuff too much -- I think it looks great for film, though. And the 200mm f/2L is such a specialty lens, that you’d pull it out one or two times a year. It makes the most amazing images, but more often than not you’re shooting with a 300mm, 400mm, or 500mm lens. "

April 14th, 2009, 07:53 AM	#15
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	Don't get too hung up on using the Exposure Lock & other complications. According to Vincent Laforet in the interview on the Canon site linked above they didn't discover that button while shooting 'Reverie'. They were using with a prototype they borrowed for the weekend & lacking a manual basically just used it as a 'point & shoot' the only control available was the +/- exposure compensation dial. Cheers Nigel