EOS 5D Mk II Firmware Update for Video Not Coming ?

[Chris Barcellos]

Greg Joyce posted the text of a email response he received from
Canon, after he made a suggestion about doing a simple upgrade to the firmware the text states:

"Thank you for contacting Canon product support. We value you as a Canon
customer and appreciate the opportunity to assist you with your EOS 5D
Mark II.

There are currently no plans to add additional video support to the 5D
Mark II, however, future cameras may offer more features.

We have forwarded your suggestion through our Customer Feedback process."

See Greg's post here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-eos...ml#post1042637

Assuming that was done with someone's authority at Canon, it sounds like they may have landed on a "no more" changes policy of the Canon 5D Mark II video capability.

Has anyone else received such notification. It seems strange we have heard nothing from Canon about an upcoming firmware update.

[Daniel Jackson]

Thats cool, but in order to buy the Nikon thats most certainly in the pipeline I'll have to sell my Canon gear.

[Chris Barcellos]

I'm not really trying to start a flame war, or an anti-Canon campaign. But from the standpoint of being owner, I just need to know where the resources need to go in terms of gear, software, and peripherals. I am wondering if anyone else has seen this type of statement coming out of Canon.

[Matthew Roddy]

I love my Canon, I want my Canon - it's a good camera that makes pretty pictures.

But I also want it to behave in a controllable, predictable way.

I'm not dedicated to any one brand,and if Nikon fixes what Canon should have already fixed, I'll sell my Canon and move to a camera that offers a solution for my needs too.
Simple economics and business decision as a creative professional.

But boy.... I sure hope Canon gives us the VERY FEW things we all want/need. They would rule the world if they did.
Their decision-making process is baffling to me.

[Jon Fairhurst]

I've been saving my lens budget for after NAB. If they announce a solution for aperture control, I'll buy Canon lenses. If not, I'll buy Nikon lenses.

It's as simple as that.

[Michael Murie]

A couple of days ago there was a slightly different spin on that rumor posted elsewhere on the net. I posted about it here, but it was deleted because of the anti-rumor policy of this board.

If you go searching around you'll probably find it.

[Chris Barcellos]

I want everyone to know that I do not mean to cast doubt on Greg Joyce's post and email quote. I just thought the communication might signify an important change in Canon communications with 5D users, and I am only wondering if others are receiving similar notices based on their inquiry. It would seem that the statement Greg received if repeated to by Canon support staff, would indicate that Canon has come to a conclusion on what it will do with respect to user's request.

Greg, I apologize if I inferred anything other than that interest in the brining up the email you quoted.

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

I'm not really trying to start a flame war...

We don't do those here anyway.

Originally Posted by Michael Murie

I posted about it here, but it was deleted because of the anti-rumor policy of this board.

Our policy simply states that "rumors" go no further than Area 51, that's all.

Besides, the subject of Canon putting a 5D2-like sensor in a dedicated video
camera has long been a subject of discussion around here... it's nothing new.
The rumor mills elsewhere on the web probably got the idea from us anyway.

[Jon Fairhurst]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Besides, the subject of Canon putting a 5D2-like sensor in a dedicated video
camera has long been a subject of discussion around here... it's nothing new.
The rumor mills elsewhere on the web probably got the idea from us anyway.

Well, if we're going to be an incubation point for a rumor, it might as well be a really good one. :)

One thing for sure, Canon knows that the 5D MkII will cause a commotion at NAB. At CES, there were only a few of us asking for feature upgrades and wondering about the future of big sensors in pro/prosumer cameras. At NAB, they'll be swarmed. Their reps on the floor need to have an official response to the questions at hand. Even with an official response, there will be some "spirited" conversations.

If Canon announces a firmware update and a next gen camera, they'll be able to tout their technology and sell products. If their only answers are "no" and "silence", they will have some major distractions getting in the way of their product marketing efforts.

[Michael Friedman]

I would say that the best indicator for Canon's future actions would be their most recent product release.

500D - 20FPS

Enough said.

Do you think that company that thinks it's ok to release a 20fps video camera is going to be adding features and functionality to a camera that is already on the market?

I say this being a 5DM2 owner who desperately hopes they will prove me wrong.

I just think they are taking the obstructionist/head in the sand/RIAA/MPAA -like-approach of responding to a clear need in the marketplace as a 'threat' to be confronted. It's a shame.


M

-- I should add... The great news for us is that the marketplace solves this. We will eventually get the camera we want. Definitely. It just may have a Nikon, Panasonic, or Red logo on the front of it.

[Chris Hurd]

But they haven't made a 20fps video camera. They've made a still camera with a 20fps video mode -- that's a huge difference, the fact that it's first and foremost a still photo camera. And that's coming from a previous product history of still photo cameras with 15fps and 10fps video modes, and it's one of several camera makers that have included 15fps and 10fps video modes before.

If you've actually seen the 20fps video samples from the Rebel T1i, and if you consider it for what it really is -- a low-end consumer product designed to compete with the Nikon D90 -- then you'd realize what a complete non-issue that particular frame rate is. The Rebel T1i wasn't intended for filmmakers or video professionals, two specialized groups which don't constitute a measurable slice of the Rebel's market.

There's certainly nothing wrong with using one in a professional capacity... I made photographs with a Rebel XT that were published in a coffee table book that you can find in any Barnes & Noble or Borders in the country... but that's not what the Rebel is made for. So there's really no valid complaint about its professional application. The Rebel is just barely a real camera. Sure, it's a D-SLR, but it's plastic and it's at the bottom of the D-SLR food chain. That it even has 1080 HD is remarkable, and people who buy it are either going to love the video mode or they won't use it at all. To those who complain about its 20fps, and I'll bet that a lot of these folks haven't even looked at the clips, I say "so what." What were you expecting in a dirt cheap, entry-level SLR? Get a real video camera.

And no, you really can't predict any future actions based on their most recent product release. They have one division which makes five tiers of D-SLRs, of which the Rebel is at the very bottom. They have a completely separate division -- different designers, engineers, etc. -- for video cameras.

[Michael Friedman]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

But they haven't made a 20fps video camera. They've made a still camera with a 20fps video mode -- that's a huge difference,

Great point Chris!

I guess I should have said 'they decided that 20fps was an acceptable frame rate to include in a product with video functionality'.

I have no complaint with them choosing whatever they want as far as codecs and frame rates. I was just trying to draw a conclusion about their future choices as a manufacturer. I may be too cynical, but I am guessing that 20fps was not a technical limitation of the camera. Do you think they could have squeezed 4 more frames per second out to get to the nearest 'standard' frame rate. I mean, those 'standard' rates have been established for a reason - to simplify workflow, post production and delivery. For this reason, I consider their products somewhat defective by design.

Even if they have different divisions, they can't have it both ways. They market the camera with 'HD'. The product page for the 500D says "Full HD video capture at 1920 x 1080 resolution"

Well, what can you call 'Full HD'? Do you think 20fps is what expect from a 'Full HD' product. How about 18fps or 3fps or 1fps. Is my iPhone now capable of 'Full HD video capture at 1920x1080'? It just doesn't pass the smell test for me.

I agree with your approach of 'whatever works'. I have shot several shows for broadcast using some completely non-standard devices. The were news/crime shows, so the compelling material justified its use. 20fps can be converted and used for absolutely anything. But imagine if they sold you a Rebel that only shot images in a triangle instead of a rectangle because they didn't want it to compete with the 40D. Sure, you could center-extract the image and still make it in your coffee table book. But it would not make you feel like Canon was giving you the best they could.

Look, I really like my 5D. I don't think Canon owes any of us anything beyond the products they choose to sell.. I just think, based on my personal observations as a tech consumer, that they aren't showing any indications of giving Chris B. or me what we are hoping for in the near future. It's an obvious guess that they are throwing everything into an XL body with a EOS mount and a CMOS sensor. I am sure that product would rock. It would also probably be worth the 10K it is likely to cost.

Someone will see an opening there and aim for the near-5K market. My money is on Panasonic (although I am not crazy about micro 4/3s lenses). They have shown a better sense of giving the market what they are clamoring for - 24p then Tapeless shooting. But we'll see.

I am happily shooting with my 5D, XhA1 (with Letus), even video mode on my SD880 powershot when it makes sense. I will be even happier when one of these companies releases the camera we all know they are now capable of producing.

[Jay Bloomfield]

And people wonder how once mighty companies like GM went into the ditch. They kept making vehicles that GM perceived that the public wanted. As long as the customer bought them, GM stayed fat and happy. In the mean time, the Japanese made fuel-efficient, durable and safe cars. Eventually, time ran out on GM.

If Canon wants to put out cameras that Canon thinks that the customer needs, eventually, some other company or companies will put Canon out of business also. The electronics market is more volatile than the automobile industry, so Canon could crash in a matter of years.

[Chris Hurd]

Not likely, Jay... the Canon Rebel XSi was by far the single most popular D-SLR sold last year... it alone accounted for one out of every twenty D-SLRs bought worldwide (source), out of a large number of models to choose from. Canon and Nikon together have a combined 80% market share in the photo industry, so it's safe to say that both companies know how to put out the cameras that customers want.

The analogy to GM, a mismanaged American automotive corporation, simply doesn't hold water, especially compared to a Japanese optical manufacturer (there really is no comparison). What many people reading this site don't realize is that they're *not* the target market for inexpensive, mass-market cameras like the Rebel. The readership of DV Info Net combined with all of the other popular online communities covering the filmmaker and videographer markets together don't begin to equal a fraction of a percent of all the people who will buy the Rebel T1i.

Even if everyone here united in the thought that the video mode (or any other aspect of that camera) is inadequate, they'd be overwhelmingly drowned out by the masses of consumers who will readily and happily buy it -- that's the big picture.

[Greg Joyce]

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

I want everyone to know that I do not mean to cast doubt on Greg Joyce's post and email quote. I just thought the communication might signify an important change in Canon communications with 5D users, and I am only wondering if others are receiving similar notices based on their inquiry. It would seem that the statement Greg received if repeated to by Canon support staff, would indicate that Canon has come to a conclusion on what it will do with respect to user's request.

Greg, I apologize if I inferred anything other than that interest in the brining up the email you quoted.

Chris, thank you but there's no reason to apologize; please don't give it another thought.

I thought it might be a change for Canon, too. Unfortunately the only change is in my hope/belief they'd do a video firmware fix, even a modest one.