zooming while shooting = epic fail at DVinfo.net

Dylan Couper · March 21st, 2009, 07:27 PM

NOTE: I've changed the title of this thread to reflect the actual problem... it'll make sense a few posts down.

After shooting about an hour of footage during a martial arts tournament over 6 hours today, the 5D markII has proved to be unreliable enough that it won't find its way to a live event with me again (which isn't what I bought it for, but still...)

In a significant number of clips (maybe 1 in 5) the 5D2 footage glitches and freezes for about 4 or 5 frames, before resuming. I can cut around much of it, but many shots were ruined (crazy backflips n such, I may post some on Vimeo later).

Has anyone else experienced this? I can't see it being a sensor heat issue, since I was only shooting for 3-5 minutes, then had the camera off for 10 minutes, then back on for 3-5 mins. I don't have a clip longer than 60 seconds, it's not like I was recording an hour long speech straigh.

Also, using the same 133x card I usually do, so I don't think its a card speed issue.

Thoughts? The sensor heat issue is all I got, but it's a stretch.

Chris Barcellos · March 21st, 2009, 07:31 PM

I have not seen that at all. I am using 133 x cards, Kingston.... When this is occuring, are you seeing the busy signal at right side of frame come on and building up ? I have never had mine go higher than 1 bar... What brand card are you using. How about battery, charged, and the legal one, or are you using another Asian brand like I just got ?

Dylan Couper · March 21st, 2009, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

I have not seen that at all. I am using 133 x cards, Kingston.... When this is occuring, are you seeing the busy signal at right side of frame come on and building up ? I have never had mine go higher than 1 bar... What brand card are you using. How about battery, charged, and the legal one, or are you using another Asian brand like I just got ?

I'm using a 32GB Transcend 133x card ($99cdn at Costco!)... did not see the busy signal at all come to think of it. Most clips were fairly short... and shot a 10 minute long clip yesterday with it with no trouble.

Battery... I have the cheaper Indian knockoff of the cheap Asian brand. :)
I started the day with the stock Canon battery with about 1/4 charge left. When it ran out, I switched to my fully charged Canosonic knock off..... hmmmmm..... the glitches didn't start until later in the day and I don't remember at what point I switched batteries... That will require some more testing. I'll pop the knock off battery back in and do some more tests tonight with a cold camera and see if the glitches come back... then I'll put the stock battery in and see if they stop. Good suggestion! If it turns out its the fault of the knock off batter... hey it's only $8 wasted. :)

Chris Barcellos · March 21st, 2009, 08:50 PM

I just got one, but have been wondering. I got it with a charger, for $20.00 delivered, but I wonder if the lack of a chip in the knock of creates issues, and I wonder if the the batteries can put out enough juice when needed. Just got mine and I'll do some testing too

Dylan Couper · March 21st, 2009, 10:03 PM

Ahaaa!

Putting 2 + 2 together:

I shot the first half of the day using the Canon 24-105L F4
I shot the second half of the day using the Sigma 50-500mm f4-6.3

I zoomed repeatedly during the day on both lenses and almost always used the auto exposure unlocked, with no tricks to lock aperture.

There were no ticks in the first half of the day.
However...
EVERY time I zoomed during the second half of the day, there was a tick. The bigger the zoom, the more the ticks.

So the consistant F4 from the Canon didn't have an issue, but the range from f4-f6.3 from the Bigma made a tick every time I zoomed more than slightly.

Problem solved. Don't zoom with variable aperture lenses while recording.

Michael Friedman · March 21st, 2009, 10:05 PM

Good troubleshooting. Very helpful.

I guess i wasn't a coincidence that they paired it with a lens that is capable of constant f4.o.

Dylan Couper · March 21st, 2009, 10:13 PM

Chris, just to be sure, I shot a test of both the stock and knock off batteries. It wasn't that. There was no difference between them.

Jesper Andersson · March 21st, 2009, 10:19 PM

Wouldnt the problem go away if you set the aperture on the Sigma to 6.3 in the low focal length so the lens dont breath while zooming?

Dylan Couper · March 21st, 2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesper Andersson

Wouldnt the problem go away if you set the aperture on the Sigma to 6.3 in the low focal length so the lens dont breath while zooming?

If you locked it off with the untwist method, its fine no matter what you do with it. I think the problem is in the computer using processing power to adjust the aperture on its own, not an issue within the lens. I'd dialed up the aperture on a manual lens while recording, and tried the untwist method with the Bigma and not had the problem, which indicates it's in the electronics of the body, not the glass itself.

Dylan Couper · March 21st, 2009, 10:41 PM

Confirmed: If the camera has anything to do with the aperture changing, whether it is from zooming or exposure change, you will experience stutters.

Important:
I forced it to stutter WITH EXPOSURE LOCKED while zooming in and out through the f4-f6.3 range.
I made it *not* stutter, using the same lens but with the twist trick, locking the aperture off. No matter what you do then, zooming through the exposure, it will not stutter.

No issues at all when using a manual aperture lens disconnected from the camera electronics.
No stuttering from zooming when using a constant aperture lens like the 24-105 f4... but still have stuttering from aperture change via auto exposure change.

So, if you plan on zooming in/out while shooting anything, you'd better be using a constant aperture lens.
Because...
The camera doesn't care if you've locked the exposure or not, if the aperture changes during zooming, it WILL STUTTER.

Chris Barcellos · March 21st, 2009, 11:29 PM

As far as battery, I just shot a 13 minute run around our small area here, with a fixed lens, and never had a blink. Battery seems to run fine.

Josh Dahlberg · March 22nd, 2009, 04:13 AM

Thanks Dylan, very useful to know.

Mitch Aunger · March 22nd, 2009, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan Couper

Problem solved. Don't zoom with variable aperture lenses while recording.

Well, the problem isn't solved, the camera still has this issue, you just at least are now aware of it and know how to handle it :)

We're still hoping Canon is able to fix this in firmware, but then again, since they mentioned it in the manual, maybe we're out of luck and have to live with it.

Dylan Couper · March 22nd, 2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch Aunger

Well, the problem isn't solved, the camera still has this issue, you just at least are now aware of it and know how to handle it :)

Fair enough, how about: "dirty, unsatisfying workaround solved." :)

Toenis Liivamaegi · March 22nd, 2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan Couper

Fair enough, how about: "dirty, unsatisfying workaround solved." :)

Should the eyes be the mirror of the mind. I really can not comperhend the Asians. A Christian proverb?

March 21st, 2009, 07:27 PM	#1
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	zooming while shooting = epic fail NOTE: I've changed the title of this thread to reflect the actual problem... it'll make sense a few posts down. After shooting about an hour of footage during a martial arts tournament over 6 hours today, the 5D markII has proved to be unreliable enough that it won't find its way to a live event with me again (which isn't what I bought it for, but still...) In a significant number of clips (maybe 1 in 5) the 5D2 footage glitches and freezes for about 4 or 5 frames, before resuming. I can cut around much of it, but many shots were ruined (crazy backflips n such, I may post some on Vimeo later). Has anyone else experienced this? I can't see it being a sensor heat issue, since I was only shooting for 3-5 minutes, then had the camera off for 10 minutes, then back on for 3-5 mins. I don't have a clip longer than 60 seconds, it's not like I was recording an hour long speech straigh. Also, using the same 133x card I usually do, so I don't think its a card speed issue. Thoughts? The sensor heat issue is all I got, but it's a stretch. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

March 21st, 2009, 07:31 PM	#2
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	I have not seen that at all. I am using 133 x cards, Kingston.... When this is occuring, are you seeing the busy signal at right side of frame come on and building up ? I have never had mine go higher than 1 bar... What brand card are you using. How about battery, charged, and the legal one, or are you using another Asian brand like I just got ? __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

March 21st, 2009, 08:50 PM	#4
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	I just got one, but have been wondering. I got it with a charger, for $20.00 delivered, but I wonder if the lack of a chip in the knock of creates issues, and I wonder if the the batteries can put out enough juice when needed. Just got mine and I'll do some testing too __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

March 21st, 2009, 10:03 PM	#5
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Ahaaa! Putting 2 + 2 together: I shot the first half of the day using the Canon 24-105L F4 I shot the second half of the day using the Sigma 50-500mm f4-6.3 I zoomed repeatedly during the day on both lenses and almost always used the auto exposure unlocked, with no tricks to lock aperture. There were no ticks in the first half of the day. However... EVERY time I zoomed during the second half of the day, there was a tick. The bigger the zoom, the more the ticks. So the consistant F4 from the Canon didn't have an issue, but the range from f4-f6.3 from the Bigma made a tick every time I zoomed more than slightly. Problem solved. Don't zoom with variable aperture lenses while recording. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

March 21st, 2009, 10:05 PM	#6
Michael Friedman Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 57	Good troubleshooting. Very helpful. I guess i wasn't a coincidence that they paired it with a lens that is capable of constant f4.o. __________________ http://www.michaelfriedman.org/

March 21st, 2009, 10:13 PM	#7
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Chris, just to be sure, I shot a test of both the stock and knock off batteries. It wasn't that. There was no difference between them. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

March 21st, 2009, 10:19 PM	#8
Jesper Andersson Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sweden - Halmstad Posts: 28	Wouldnt the problem go away if you set the aperture on the Sigma to 6.3 in the low focal length so the lens dont breath while zooming?

March 21st, 2009, 10:41 PM	#10
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Confirmed: If the camera has anything to do with the aperture changing, whether it is from zooming or exposure change, you will experience stutters. Important: I forced it to stutter WITH EXPOSURE LOCKED while zooming in and out through the f4-f6.3 range. I made it not stutter, using the same lens but with the twist trick, locking the aperture off. No matter what you do then, zooming through the exposure, it will not stutter. No issues at all when using a manual aperture lens disconnected from the camera electronics. No stuttering from zooming when using a constant aperture lens like the 24-105 f4... but still have stuttering from aperture change via auto exposure change. So, if you plan on zooming in/out while shooting anything, you'd better be using a constant aperture lens. Because... The camera doesn't care if you've locked the exposure or not, if the aperture changes during zooming, it WILL STUTTER. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

March 21st, 2009, 11:29 PM	#11
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	As far as battery, I just shot a 13 minute run around our small area here, with a fixed lens, and never had a blink. Battery seems to run fine. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

March 22nd, 2009, 04:13 AM	#12
Josh Dahlberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 513	Thanks Dylan, very useful to know.