30.0 vs 29.97.

Jon Fairhurst · July 11th, 2009, 07:17 PM

David,

I have a simple feature request - make the conversion to 29.97 and audio resampling optional.

On my audio reviews, I've been using an older version of NeoScene without the resampling, since I want unprocessed audio. Unfortunately, I need to manually change the speed of each clip back to 30p to stay in sync.

For people who want to convert to 24 or 25p, it would be great if they could choose not to bother with the conversion.

Mark Hahn · July 11th, 2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

David,

I have a simple feature request - make the conversion to 29.97 and audio resampling optional.

On my audio reviews, I've been using an older version of NeoScene without the resampling, since I want unprocessed audio. Unfortunately, I need to manually change the speed of each clip back to 30p to stay in sync.

For people who want to convert to 24 or 25p, it would be great if they could choose not to bother with the conversion.

I've made the same request to support. I also complained that their user interface lied when you check "use input format".

David Newman · July 11th, 2009, 09:56 PM

Geoff,

This thread is discussing PC issues, the Mac has it own set. The luma levels are manually controlled on the Mac (auto on the PC.) With "limit YUV for canon 5d" enabled we fix some of the out of range issue and normalize the 5D to 16-235 luma, not 0 to 255 which many applications truncate. On the Mac I think the decoder output 30p not 29.97, but I'm not a Mac guy so I could be wrong.

Jon,

We have that feature, but it is Neo HD and above. Neo Scene is designed for consumer markets (and sells in high volumes,) many find Neo Scene has too many controls as it is -- e.g. explaining pulldown is tricky for the wide market -- so we gave up and with "Convert to 24/25p", that language has to own problems. Neo Scene has the minimal feature set to satisfy 95% of the need of the low end market -- dead simple to use with few options. Have a look at Neo HD, and there is huge difference to what that package includes.

Mark,

Actually the Main Concepts AVCHD decoder which Neo uses, inteprets the Canon as 29.97, we just fix the audio to match. Like Jon you may benefit from the extra features on Neo HD.

Ivan Babko · July 12th, 2009, 03:53 AM

David, any luck with my files?

David Newman · July 12th, 2009, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan Babko

David, thanks for your time.

I removed CFHD_*.prm files and reinstalled Neoscene, but unfortunately this didn't fix the problem.

I couldn't use the ftp link you provided, so I uploaded the files to my website instead. Here's the link: http://cinemaproject.ru/cineform/ibabko.zip (257mb). The archive contains the following:

1. original.mov - straight out of the camera footage. Smooth.
2. neoscene.avi - same footage transcoded to Neoscene. Also smooth.
3. render_timeline30_export30.mp4 - both files put to 30p timeline and exported as 30p. Both are smooth.
4. render_timeline30_export2997.mp4 - both files put to 30p timeline and exported as 29,97. Both are smooth.
5. render_timeline2997_export2997.mp4 - both files put to 29,97 timeline and exported as 29,97. Neoscene is strobing, original is smooth
6. render_timeline2997_export30.mp4 - both files put to 29,97 timeline and exported as 30p. Neoscene is strobing, original is smooth

As you can see I get neoscene video strobing when I use 29,97fps timeline.

I'm not having the same issue. I single-stepped the neoscene.avi files, and there are no duplicate frames. I exported that timeline and still all was fine. I can see that you are get duplicates in you exports, but I can't reproduce them here. You install is still behaving like older software, yet you tried removing the importers. Do you see the duplicate frames when stepping neoscene.avi, or only upon your exports?

Nice footage BTW, both subject and location.

Ivan Babko · July 12th, 2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman

You install is still behaving like older software, yet you tried removing the importers. Do you see the duplicate frames when stepping neoscene.avi, or only upon your exports?

David, I'm sorry, I don't understand what 'stepping' means. But! Good news, everyone (c). Today I decided to reinstall Windows XP. I didn't install anything except for Premiere and Neoscene. Now everything plays smoothly. Should've done that in the first place, I guess :) The best solution to a lot of problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman

Nice footage BTW, both subject and location.

Thanks. It is shot at Amber Lake in Russia, near Finland. We had corporate party there and I took my new 5D with me. Subject is my colleague's wife :)

David, do you happen to know if Photoshop Extended is capable of editing Neoscene files? When I try to open them in Photoshop, I get white canvas.

Geoff Brandon · July 12th, 2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan Babko

David, I'm sorry, I don't understand what 'stepping' means. But! Good news, everyone (c). Today I decided to reinstall Windows XP. I didn't install anything except for Premiere and Neoscene. Now everything plays smoothly. Should've done that in the first place, I guess :) The best solution to a lot of problems.

Thanks. It is shot at Amber Lake in Russia, near Finland. We had corporate party there and I took my new 5D with me. Subject is my colleague's wife :)

David, do you happen to know if Photoshop Extended is capable of editing Neoscene files? When I try to open them in Photoshop, I get white canvas.

Actually, the best solution I found was to buy a mac and use OSX. Everyone of my problems dissapeared. And for the record, I own a consutling company that specializes in pc's and wan/lan's. PC's seem to be great for 2 things, playing games and being servers. Everything else seems to be a ordeal to deal with. My productivity went up 300% when I switched to mac. Things are so simple they sometimes elude me due to my PC background. I'm happy you got it working, but people shouldnt have to reinstall a O/S to fix their problems.

Check out the photoshop support forums. They should be able to answer your question regarding photoshop extended. I would assume the answer would be yes, but i cant say that 100% for sure.

Nigel Barker · July 13th, 2009, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff Brandon

Actually, the best solution I found was to buy a mac and use OSX. Everyone of my problems dissapeared. And for the record, I own a consutling company that specializes in pc's and wan/lan's. PC's seem to be great for 2 things, playing games and being servers. Everything else seems to be a ordeal to deal with. My productivity went up 300% when I switched to mac. Things are so simple they sometimes elude me due to my PC background. I'm happy you got it working, but people shouldnt have to reinstall a O/S to fix their problems.

Geoff, I concur with you 100%. I spent 25 years with major computer manufacturers & have configured, supported, installed & worked with Windows since V1. Windows has grown into a horrible complex monster that cannot be fixed. It's been a breath of fresh air to move to Macs & mostly they live up to the simple refrain that 'they just work'. To satisfy my inner-geek Mac OS X is built on a robust UNIX with Mach microkernel & can be treated as proper grown-up UNIX if required although Apple have done such a stellar job on the UI & all other stuff above the base OS that for most users there is no need. The initially higher purchase price is repaid many times over in increased productivity & lack of frustration & downtime.

Ivan Babko · July 13th, 2009, 02:06 AM

Thank you guys. I've been thinking about switching to Mac all the time now. Unfortunately Mac's cost twice as much here, so the only real way to purchase one would be to ask someone going on a trip to US to buy it for me. Anyway I don't have money even for that right now since I've spent all of them on the gear.

I tried hackintosh and it worked ok, but not as a real Mac of course. And yes, it is shocking sometimes for a person who's been working with Windows since 3.11 how intuitive and stable things can be.

But I have to stay in a PC world for now and live with common Windows workarounds like reinstalling it if something goes wrong :)

July 11th, 2009, 07:17 PM	#16
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	David, I have a simple feature request - make the conversion to 29.97 and audio resampling optional. On my audio reviews, I've been using an older version of NeoScene without the resampling, since I want unprocessed audio. Unfortunately, I need to manually change the speed of each clip back to 30p to stay in sync. For people who want to convert to 24 or 25p, it would be great if they could choose not to bother with the conversion. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

July 11th, 2009, 09:56 PM	#18
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Geoff, This thread is discussing PC issues, the Mac has it own set. The luma levels are manually controlled on the Mac (auto on the PC.) With "limit YUV for canon 5d" enabled we fix some of the out of range issue and normalize the 5D to 16-235 luma, not 0 to 255 which many applications truncate. On the Mac I think the decoder output 30p not 29.97, but I'm not a Mac guy so I could be wrong. Jon, We have that feature, but it is Neo HD and above. Neo Scene is designed for consumer markets (and sells in high volumes,) many find Neo Scene has too many controls as it is -- e.g. explaining pulldown is tricky for the wide market -- so we gave up and with "Convert to 24/25p", that language has to own problems. Neo Scene has the minimal feature set to satisfy 95% of the need of the low end market -- dead simple to use with few options. Have a look at Neo HD, and there is huge difference to what that package includes. Mark, Actually the Main Concepts AVCHD decoder which Neo uses, inteprets the Canon as 29.97, we just fix the audio to match. Like Jon you may benefit from the extra features on Neo HD. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

July 12th, 2009, 03:53 AM	#19
Ivan Babko New Boot Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. Petersburg, RU Posts: 14	David, any luck with my files?

July 13th, 2009, 02:06 AM	#24
Ivan Babko New Boot Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. Petersburg, RU Posts: 14	Thank you guys. I've been thinking about switching to Mac all the time now. Unfortunately Mac's cost twice as much here, so the only real way to purchase one would be to ask someone going on a trip to US to buy it for me. Anyway I don't have money even for that right now since I've spent all of them on the gear. I tried hackintosh and it worked ok, but not as a real Mac of course. And yes, it is shocking sometimes for a person who's been working with Windows since 3.11 how intuitive and stable things can be. But I have to stay in a PC world for now and live with common Windows workarounds like reinstalling it if something goes wrong :)