Clear Choice for HDMI Monitor for 5D2?

Mark Hahn · March 24th, 2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Roddy

I tried t his the other night, after reading about it here.

It works on a desktop, so I'd guess it will work on a laptop, since it's only USB.
And since it IS only USB, the display is significantly reduced in frame rate.

To my eye,I'd guess I was getting about 12FPS update with a bit of a lag (as noted above).

As far as I know, USB just can't transfer that kind of data quickly enough for real-time.

On the plus side (for me), I hooked the HDMI from the camera into my 50" Panny, and was not offended by the 480p display. I think a nice little (inexpensive) monitor will be a benefit on most shoots that I do.

I'll take 12 fps of 1080p over 30fps of 480p any day. You can judge quality so much better. It's also the same before and during shooting.

Guy Cochran · March 25th, 2009, 09:49 AM

With the Marshall, I hook up both an HDMI and the included AV cable. Use the HDMI for checking out a scene before rolling or for reviewing footage. Since the camera will down rez when you hit record, I disconnect the HDMI cable and use Composite. It is SD, but it is better quality than the low rez, stretched HDMI output while recording. You'll be amazed at how well you can focus in SD with Red Peaking. The composite signal does not change when you hit record. I have been using the monitor for a few months now this way. Even with a monopod, steady tracker extreme, steady stick and hand held, I can focus much, much better on the move. See the example video Calibrating a Broadcast Monitor + New Pro Features on Vimeo

Ozan Biron · March 25th, 2009, 10:47 AM

side question... can u have both the camera LCD on and the external monitor on? Is there a switch in a menu? Or that jst how life is with the mkii... it turns off when an external cable is connected.

Dan Chung · March 25th, 2009, 11:04 AM

It just turns off when the HDMI or av cable is connected.

Dan

Mark Hahn · March 25th, 2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Cochran

With the Marshall, I hook up both an HDMI and the included AV cable. Use the HDMI for checking out a scene before rolling or for reviewing footage. Since the camera will down rez when you hit record, I disconnect the HDMI cable and use Composite. It is SD, but it is better quality than the low rez, stretched HDMI output while recording. You'll be amazed at how well you can focus in SD with Red Peaking. The composite signal does not change when you hit record. I have been using the monitor for a few months now this way. Even with a monopod, steady tracker extreme, steady stick and hand held, I can focus much, much better on the move. See the example video Calibrating a Broadcast Monitor + New Pro Features on Vimeo

Seems like a lot of trouble. A USB cable to a laptop shows HD widescreen before, during, and after shooting. There is about a one second delay, but that hasn't been a problem for me. You also have the stupid white square.

Guy Cochran · March 25th, 2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Hahn

Seems like a lot of trouble. A USB cable to a laptop shows HD widescreen before, during, and after shooting. There is about a one second delay, but that hasn't been a problem for me. You also have the stupid white square.

It boils down to what type of shooting you're doing. Standing in the middle of the city tethered to a laptop isn't going to happen. 1 second delay. Not for me. I can put an israeli arm on and shoot a concert like this NIN: 1,000,000 Live from on stage, Sydney 2.22.09 [HD] on Vimeo
Or I can slap on a monopod (my favorite so far) and get 7' overhead while tilting the monitor down. Jib arm shots? No problem.

Mark Hahn · March 25th, 2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Cochran

It boils down to what type of shooting you're doing. Standing in the middle of the city tethered to a laptop isn't going to happen. 1 second delay. Not for me. I can put an israeli arm on and shoot a concert like this NIN: 1,000,000 Live from on stage, Sydney 2.22.09 [HD] on Vimeo
Or I can slap on a monopod (my favorite so far) and get 7' overhead while tilting the monitor down. Jib arm shots? No problem.

They make laptops of all sizes, including very small. You could mount one on an any arm. They make ones where the screen rotates 180 degrees and even lays flat so it is nothing but screen. The screen tilt is great on that kind. You can see histograms and control settings. You can start and stop recording from the laptop. They have batteries built in.

Re: one second delay. I use the Camera's LCD for framing while shooting unless it is a still shot, then I use the laptop.

I'm not saying it is for everyone, but for me, fighting the crippled video connectors is way to much of a pain.

William Chung · March 26th, 2009, 11:48 AM

Yeah i think a netbook like the often discounted 200$ dell mini 9 would be a very interesting option.

Daniel Jackson · March 28th, 2009, 03:18 PM

So, what exactly should someone expect when you plug in a hdmi monitor like the Ikan?

I know that the lcd screen on the 5d turns off.

I also know that while recording, the image shrinks and has black bars above and below, it doesn't fill the screen and there is a drop in resolution down to 480i.

while reviewing your footage or while in live view mode the resolution is 1080. So as long as you aren't recording the monitor is wonderful.

What is unclear is that some people have said that for the monitor to switch over from hd to 480 causes a lag time of 5 seconds, is this so? Also, once once you have hit record and the monitor has caught up is there a delay between what you are viewing on the monitor and what is happening or is it pretty much live?

I can see how it would be useful to have a 8inch hd monitor to check focus while reviewing footage or even to get focused before a shot, but considering the step down in quality when recording is the larger monitor an advantage at all for focusing? In other words, would I typically rather just focus from the camera's lcd screen.

Dan Chung · March 28th, 2009, 08:56 PM

Daniel, you are pretty much correct on all counts. With the Manhattan and Ikan HDMI LCD's I've tested so far there is a few second blackout as the resolution change from 1080 to 480, I am told the Marshall does not do this Guy would know better. Once the resolution has changed there is no noticable delay.

I think you can also rig the Ikan and Manhattan the same way as Guy has with both video input types and then switch between them but I haven't tested that yet.

Even in 1080 output before recording the image is shrunk with info around it so you never get full screen 1080.

Hope that helps

Dan

William Chung · March 30th, 2009, 01:47 PM

Hey Dan, so what do you this is the most preferred solution for video out?

I'm about to pull the trigger on a dell mini 9 to try out that option.

Jon Fairhurst · March 30th, 2009, 03:56 PM

When connected to my Acer monitor's HDMI port, recording starts and quickly stops on my 5D MkII. My guess is that the monitor doesn't support 480p over HDMI properly.

So be careful when buying an HDMI monitor for live recording. If it doesn't support 480p, it won't work. I think a 4x3 SD analog monitor is the cost-effective way to go for mounting to the rig. HDMI and 16x9 are only worthwhile for playback review.

Chris Barcellos · March 30th, 2009, 05:05 PM

Sometimes as I am looking at the image through the monitor hookup trying to get that critical focus, my imaginations runs away to some Canon planning session where they are all gathered around a big table, trying to see how many ways they could frustrate the Indie film maker who dares try to turn their SLR in to a film maker's dream camera. Dang they are making it hard, but we will just have to persevere.

One effective way to get critical focus if you are not dealing with a moving target, is to actually focus through the prism view finder, before locking the mirror up to go to Live View... this seems to work well.

Jon Fairhurst · March 30th, 2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

One effective way to get critical focus if you are not dealing with a moving target, is to actually focus through the prism view finder, before locking the mirror up to go to Live View... this seems to work well.

I prefer to use the x10 magnification in Live View. Neither method is helpful though, after you start recording.

Dan Chung · March 31st, 2009, 07:25 AM

William,

For now I think the Hoodman hoodloupe is best for run and gun but I'd say an Ikan 5.6 inch, 8 inch is OK for other stuff. The Manhattan is nice but too big for me unless its in the studio. I haven't had a chance to see a Marshall though.

Dan

March 25th, 2009, 09:49 AM	#17
Guy Cochran DVCreators.Net Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 892	With the Marshall, I hook up both an HDMI and the included AV cable. Use the HDMI for checking out a scene before rolling or for reviewing footage. Since the camera will down rez when you hit record, I disconnect the HDMI cable and use Composite. It is SD, but it is better quality than the low rez, stretched HDMI output while recording. You'll be amazed at how well you can focus in SD with Red Peaking. The composite signal does not change when you hit record. I have been using the monitor for a few months now this way. Even with a monopod, steady tracker extreme, steady stick and hand held, I can focus much, much better on the move. See the example video Calibrating a Broadcast Monitor + New Pro Features on Vimeo __________________ Guy Cochran DVinfo Sponsor, Cool Gear - DVeStore!

March 25th, 2009, 10:47 AM	#18
Ozan Biron Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Vancouver, CANADA Posts: 137	side question... can u have both the camera LCD on and the external monitor on? Is there a switch in a menu? Or that jst how life is with the mkii... it turns off when an external cable is connected. __________________ www.ozan.ca

March 28th, 2009, 03:18 PM	#24
Daniel Jackson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Claymont, Delaware Posts: 25	Hdmi So, what exactly should someone expect when you plug in a hdmi monitor like the Ikan? I know that the lcd screen on the 5d turns off. I also know that while recording, the image shrinks and has black bars above and below, it doesn't fill the screen and there is a drop in resolution down to 480i. while reviewing your footage or while in live view mode the resolution is 1080. So as long as you aren't recording the monitor is wonderful. What is unclear is that some people have said that for the monitor to switch over from hd to 480 causes a lag time of 5 seconds, is this so? Also, once once you have hit record and the monitor has caught up is there a delay between what you are viewing on the monitor and what is happening or is it pretty much live? I can see how it would be useful to have a 8inch hd monitor to check focus while reviewing footage or even to get focused before a shot, but considering the step down in quality when recording is the larger monitor an advantage at all for focusing? In other words, would I typically rather just focus from the camera's lcd screen.

March 30th, 2009, 03:56 PM	#27
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	When connected to my Acer monitor's HDMI port, recording starts and quickly stops on my 5D MkII. My guess is that the monitor doesn't support 480p over HDMI properly. So be careful when buying an HDMI monitor for live recording. If it doesn't support 480p, it won't work. I think a 4x3 SD analog monitor is the cost-effective way to go for mounting to the rig. HDMI and 16x9 are only worthwhile for playback review. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

March 30th, 2009, 05:05 PM	#28
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Sometimes as I am looking at the image through the monitor hookup trying to get that critical focus, my imaginations runs away to some Canon planning session where they are all gathered around a big table, trying to see how many ways they could frustrate the Indie film maker who dares try to turn their SLR in to a film maker's dream camera. Dang they are making it hard, but we will just have to persevere. One effective way to get critical focus if you are not dealing with a moving target, is to actually focus through the prism view finder, before locking the mirror up to go to Live View... this seems to work well. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

March 25th, 2009, 11:04 AM	#19
Dan Chung Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Beijing Posts: 665	It just turns off when the HDMI or av cable is connected. Dan

March 26th, 2009, 11:48 AM	#23
William Chung Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Duluth, GA Posts: 80	Yeah i think a netbook like the often discounted 200$ dell mini 9 would be a very interesting option.

March 28th, 2009, 08:56 PM	#25
Dan Chung Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Beijing Posts: 665	Daniel, you are pretty much correct on all counts. With the Manhattan and Ikan HDMI LCD's I've tested so far there is a few second blackout as the resolution change from 1080 to 480, I am told the Marshall does not do this Guy would know better. Once the resolution has changed there is no noticable delay. I think you can also rig the Ikan and Manhattan the same way as Guy has with both video input types and then switch between them but I haven't tested that yet. Even in 1080 output before recording the image is shrunk with info around it so you never get full screen 1080. Hope that helps Dan

March 30th, 2009, 01:47 PM	#26
William Chung Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Duluth, GA Posts: 80	Hey Dan, so what do you this is the most preferred solution for video out? I'm about to pull the trigger on a dell mini 9 to try out that option.

March 31st, 2009, 07:25 AM	#30
Dan Chung Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Beijing Posts: 665	William, For now I think the Hoodman hoodloupe is best for run and gun but I'd say an Ikan 5.6 inch, 8 inch is OK for other stuff. The Manhattan is nice but too big for me unless its in the studio. I haven't had a chance to see a Marshall though. Dan