5DmkII unofficial guide yet? at DVinfo.net

Dylan Couper · February 24th, 2009, 11:22 PM

Has anyone put together an "unofficial" guide for shooting video with the 5DmkII yet?

Chris Barcellos · February 24th, 2009, 11:32 PM

Dylan:

As I await the new arrival, I found this at the Canon learning center, but maybe you have seen it:

Canon Digital Learning Center - EOS 5D Mark II: Movie Mode Basics

Chris Hurd · February 24th, 2009, 11:34 PM

That's great and aall, but we can do something better on DV Info Net, ya think?

Chris Barcellos · February 24th, 2009, 11:48 PM

gotta have the camera first....

Dylan Couper · February 25th, 2009, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

gotta have the camera first....

Wait... YOU don't have one yet??

You used to be cool, man....

:)

Chris Barcellos · February 25th, 2009, 01:42 AM

I will be cool again soon...

Mine coming Thursday... we are going to shoot a 30 sec promotional piece with it on Weekend. I have some Ideas on how I will handle sound monotoring, monitor issues, exposure issues, and work flow, but I am sure we will have a lot of surprises in store.

Chris Swanberg · February 25th, 2009, 01:50 AM

I'm sure that Chris will be up all night Thursday after his arrives working on one. (grin)

Chris Barcellos · February 27th, 2009, 12:10 PM

I actually didn't stay up all night. I came to a abrupt conclusion late in the evening, that Canon has done another HV20 type job with this camera, but that, as many have stated, and just like the HV20, there are "non-traditional" work arounds.

I also came up with what appears to be a dead pixel on the sensor on the first day, but I will look at that fresh this morning to see if that is only a dust issue.

As far as doing some kind of primer for video on this camera, I will look at that after the weekend, as I will have had more time with it. But this is a bit of what I learned the first day:

1. I read the entire manual, thinking I can apply all of the instructions about setting up exposures, etc., to the video aspect of this camera.... Forget most of that. If anything, it will make you despair as to the things you could have had access to if Canon had seen fit to include in the video end of this camera.

2. If you are shooting with a Canon lense so equiped important setting for video are your auto focus settings if you have an autofocus set up, setting stabilizer if you have that. I am using manual Nikon and Pentax lenses, so I ignore that.

3. Live View: For some reason, Canon has to call using the LCD on back of the camera "Live View". It created great confusion in my mind, because it made is sound like it was some great advance in technology. Essentially, Live View means you have turned on the LCD, the mirror has been locked in up position, on and you are seeing directly through the sensor, and not through the pentaprism viewfinder. We in the video world have always seen or images this way, but I suppose its somewhat unique to SLR digital photographers, still. For my purposes, tts the only way you can view for video purposes as far as I have been able to tell. While you can adjust the image and see its effect for photographic purposes, by selecting a particular display mode, that view will only cause you to dispair again, because you will realize that Canon takes that beautiful picture you adjusted so carefully, and throws it out when you decide to shoot the video. It will come back to the setting after you finish the video, but you are left with limited adjustments in the video itself, which actually is not all that bad in many ways because most of us are used to adding our affects in post anyway.

4. You do need to learn to use "Picture Style" in setting of the camera. You can effect the video you are shooting by adjusting sharpness, contrast, saturation, colortone, and move the camera to monochrome. I just haven't had the camera long enough to actually experiement with it, but I believe you can develop a setting that will be similar to the HV20 Cinemode that will have apparent wider latitude so you can level correct, color correct, sharpen or otherwise adjust in post. Of course, you can also use that to do some fairly wild in camera. Remember that the style that is employed will be in the video shot, and will remain there through the takes until you change it to something else.

5. In order to assert other limited controls on the camera, you need to set the dial on left side top of camera to P,TV, AV, or M, and maybe B. The other settings ([] and [CA] will assert absolute control and not allow changes from camera readings. Also, though I am not absolutely clear on this this, it looks like that in order to be able access the two setting wheels, it appears you have to have the on off switch set to highest position ( looks like a backward check mark).

6. I will be developing a better plan in the coming days, but it looks like there are two main ways to affect exposure. First, because you can lock exposure in by hitting the * button, you can fool the camera by shining it into a bright light, then locking it. With a manual aperature Nikon or Pentax lens like I use, I set the desired f stop for depth of field purposes, then camera selects shutter and ISO settings as you pan the camera, it adjust with tell tales signs of autoexposure. ISO, in my mind is the same as gain on my video cameras. If you point the camera to a dark area, the camera will adjust shutter speed down or ISO up. The shutter in video mode only adjust between 1/30 and 1/125. ISO can go up to 3200. You can lock the settings by selecting the * button. And then do so some more exposure adjustments by turning a wheel.

7. So far, I have not liked much of the video past ISO 400, though, I have heard some say you can go as high as 1000. I am sure that in adjusting some of the Picture Style settings, you should be able to make the higher ISO setting.

8. You are also able to select white balance settings. I haven't quite figured out how to do the manual WB setting, but it involves actually taking a photograph of your white card to use as reference.

More to come.

Jon Fairhurst · February 27th, 2009, 12:26 PM

Chris, you're going to have a blast with this camera. You've clearly got the right mindset to take advantage of what it offers.

Regarding picture styles, be prepared to find the editing of the curves a bit limited and frustrating. (We tried to get rid of the 16-235 black crush with it, to limited success.) It's still powerful, but constrained.

Regarding the shutter speeds, they go beyond 1/125, regardless of what the manual says. See our analysis here: ~ The Murder of Dirk Snowglobe - Article: 5D Mark II Shutter Exposed! ~

And, yes, the WB can be set by taking a photo. Rather than a card, we use an ExpoDisc. It's pretty sweet in that you don't have to set up a card. To do it right, you take the photo from the target position. If the lighting is broad and general, you can take the photo from the camera position. By pressing the shutter part way and stepping through the info button modes, you can see the histogram to double check the WB and really optimize your exposure. The Canon always applies a bit of an S-curve from RAW to 8-bits, so it's important to get the exposure right to take advantage of it and to keep your shots consistent.

Enjoy!

Mark Hahn · February 27th, 2009, 12:39 PM

When you get settings you like, be sure to store them in the custom settings so you can just spin the dial.

I usually shoot tethered and white balance is much easier there. You just hold up the gray card and use an eyedropper. No photo is needed. I stores it in the camera immediately.

Jon Fairhurst · February 27th, 2009, 12:44 PM

You can also create a user menu that lets you group commonly used settings and controls. Not only does it make it faster to setup, but it can act as an onboard checklist to make sure you're gone through all the desired steps.

Daniel Browning · February 27th, 2009, 04:22 PM

I like the user menu too, but it's limited to just 6 items or so. I *love* the custom dials (C1, C2, C3), but every time you make *any* change you have to remember to go in the menu and save it. I wish it would automatically save settings like the 1D series, oh well.

Mark Hahn · February 27th, 2009, 04:49 PM

I've never used the 1D, but I like the fact that you can use something like C3, make one change from the normal program, and then know later that C3 is still C3.

Daniel Browning · February 27th, 2009, 05:00 PM

That makes sense. It would be nice if there was a custom function to reverse that, but by that point we're talking meta configuration of optional settings parameter selection choices, and it might get confusing. :)

Mark Hahn · February 27th, 2009, 05:01 PM

They should just let us program it in visual basic.

February 24th, 2009, 11:22 PM	#1
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	5DmkII unofficial guide yet? Has anyone put together an "unofficial" guide for shooting video with the 5DmkII yet? __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

February 24th, 2009, 11:32 PM	#2
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Dylan: As I await the new arrival, I found this at the Canon learning center, but maybe you have seen it: Canon Digital Learning Center - EOS 5D Mark II: Movie Mode Basics __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

February 24th, 2009, 11:34 PM	#3
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	That's great and aall, but we can do something better on DV Info Net, ya think? __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 24th, 2009, 11:48 PM	#4
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	gotta have the camera first.... __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

February 25th, 2009, 01:42 AM	#6
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	I will be cool again soon... Mine coming Thursday... we are going to shoot a 30 sec promotional piece with it on Weekend. I have some Ideas on how I will handle sound monotoring, monitor issues, exposure issues, and work flow, but I am sure we will have a lot of surprises in store. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

February 25th, 2009, 01:50 AM	#7
Chris Swanberg Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 904	I'm sure that Chris will be up all night Thursday after his arrives working on one. (grin) Last edited by Chris Swanberg; February 25th, 2009 at 10:51 AM.

February 27th, 2009, 12:10 PM	#8
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	I actually didn't stay up all night. I came to a abrupt conclusion late in the evening, that Canon has done another HV20 type job with this camera, but that, as many have stated, and just like the HV20, there are "non-traditional" work arounds. I also came up with what appears to be a dead pixel on the sensor on the first day, but I will look at that fresh this morning to see if that is only a dust issue. As far as doing some kind of primer for video on this camera, I will look at that after the weekend, as I will have had more time with it. But this is a bit of what I learned the first day: 1. I read the entire manual, thinking I can apply all of the instructions about setting up exposures, etc., to the video aspect of this camera.... Forget most of that. If anything, it will make you despair as to the things you could have had access to if Canon had seen fit to include in the video end of this camera. 2. If you are shooting with a Canon lense so equiped important setting for video are your auto focus settings if you have an autofocus set up, setting stabilizer if you have that. I am using manual Nikon and Pentax lenses, so I ignore that. 3. Live View: For some reason, Canon has to call using the LCD on back of the camera "Live View". It created great confusion in my mind, because it made is sound like it was some great advance in technology. Essentially, Live View means you have turned on the LCD, the mirror has been locked in up position, on and you are seeing directly through the sensor, and not through the pentaprism viewfinder. We in the video world have always seen or images this way, but I suppose its somewhat unique to SLR digital photographers, still. For my purposes, tts the only way you can view for video purposes as far as I have been able to tell. While you can adjust the image and see its effect for photographic purposes, by selecting a particular display mode, that view will only cause you to dispair again, because you will realize that Canon takes that beautiful picture you adjusted so carefully, and throws it out when you decide to shoot the video. It will come back to the setting after you finish the video, but you are left with limited adjustments in the video itself, which actually is not all that bad in many ways because most of us are used to adding our affects in post anyway. 4. You do need to learn to use "Picture Style" in setting of the camera. You can effect the video you are shooting by adjusting sharpness, contrast, saturation, colortone, and move the camera to monochrome. I just haven't had the camera long enough to actually experiement with it, but I believe you can develop a setting that will be similar to the HV20 Cinemode that will have apparent wider latitude so you can level correct, color correct, sharpen or otherwise adjust in post. Of course, you can also use that to do some fairly wild in camera. Remember that the style that is employed will be in the video shot, and will remain there through the takes until you change it to something else. 5. In order to assert other limited controls on the camera, you need to set the dial on left side top of camera to P,TV, AV, or M, and maybe B. The other settings ([] and [CA] will assert absolute control and not allow changes from camera readings. Also, though I am not absolutely clear on this this, it looks like that in order to be able access the two setting wheels, it appears you have to have the on off switch set to highest position ( looks like a backward check mark). 6. I will be developing a better plan in the coming days, but it looks like there are two main ways to affect exposure. First, because you can lock exposure in by hitting the * button, you can fool the camera by shining it into a bright light, then locking it. With a manual aperature Nikon or Pentax lens like I use, I set the desired f stop for depth of field purposes, then camera selects shutter and ISO settings as you pan the camera, it adjust with tell tales signs of autoexposure. ISO, in my mind is the same as gain on my video cameras. If you point the camera to a dark area, the camera will adjust shutter speed down or ISO up. The shutter in video mode only adjust between 1/30 and 1/125. ISO can go up to 3200. You can lock the settings by selecting the * button. And then do so some more exposure adjustments by turning a wheel. 7. So far, I have not liked much of the video past ISO 400, though, I have heard some say you can go as high as 1000. I am sure that in adjusting some of the Picture Style settings, you should be able to make the higher ISO setting. 8. You are also able to select white balance settings. I haven't quite figured out how to do the manual WB setting, but it involves actually taking a photograph of your white card to use as reference. More to come. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

February 27th, 2009, 12:26 PM	#9
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Chris, you're going to have a blast with this camera. You've clearly got the right mindset to take advantage of what it offers. Regarding picture styles, be prepared to find the editing of the curves a bit limited and frustrating. (We tried to get rid of the 16-235 black crush with it, to limited success.) It's still powerful, but constrained. Regarding the shutter speeds, they go beyond 1/125, regardless of what the manual says. See our analysis here: ~ The Murder of Dirk Snowglobe - Article: 5D Mark II Shutter Exposed! ~ And, yes, the WB can be set by taking a photo. Rather than a card, we use an ExpoDisc. It's pretty sweet in that you don't have to set up a card. To do it right, you take the photo from the target position. If the lighting is broad and general, you can take the photo from the camera position. By pressing the shutter part way and stepping through the info button modes, you can see the histogram to double check the WB and really optimize your exposure. The Canon always applies a bit of an S-curve from RAW to 8-bits, so it's important to get the exposure right to take advantage of it and to keep your shots consistent. Enjoy! __________________ Jon Fairhurst

February 27th, 2009, 12:39 PM	#10
Mark Hahn Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 277	When you get settings you like, be sure to store them in the custom settings so you can just spin the dial. I usually shoot tethered and white balance is much easier there. You just hold up the gray card and use an eyedropper. No photo is needed. I stores it in the camera immediately.

February 27th, 2009, 12:44 PM	#11
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	You can also create a user menu that lets you group commonly used settings and controls. Not only does it make it faster to setup, but it can act as an onboard checklist to make sure you're gone through all the desired steps. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

February 27th, 2009, 04:22 PM	#12
Daniel Browning Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 949	I like the user menu too, but it's limited to just 6 items or so. I love the custom dials (C1, C2, C3), but every time you make any change you have to remember to go in the menu and save it. I wish it would automatically save settings like the 1D series, oh well.

February 27th, 2009, 04:49 PM	#13
Mark Hahn Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 277	I've never used the 1D, but I like the fact that you can use something like C3, make one change from the normal program, and then know later that C3 is still C3.

February 27th, 2009, 05:00 PM	#14
Daniel Browning Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 949	That makes sense. It would be nice if there was a custom function to reverse that, but by that point we're talking meta configuration of optional settings parameter selection choices, and it might get confusing. :)

February 27th, 2009, 05:01 PM	#15
Mark Hahn Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 277	They should just let us program it in visual basic.