Shooting in PAL land with 5D at DVinfo.net

Mark McCarthy · February 22nd, 2009, 08:33 AM

Hi all

I am based in the UK and run a small video productions company in the South East. I just bought a new 5D MK2, with three fast Nikon lenses (28mm, 50mm , 135mm) and an adaptor.
I shoot a lot of highlight videos for sporting events for the sponsors. Now, I'd love and would pay a lot for this camera to shoot 25 frames a second, and hopefully we'll get a firmware upgrade shortly. But for the moment, I plan to just shoot locked off stuff with the camera mounted on a tripod, to capture some really nice scenic shots, branding shots etc, without any audio, not needed. Then when I convert the 30 frames footage to 25 in Vegas, you can get by with the footage. The locked off shots I've played with look fine. Naturally as soon as the camera moves, the juddering is too bad.

The images it produces are amazing, esp in low light and I am very happy to work within the cameras limitations in light for what it can produce. The quality exceeds any video camera I have ever seen.

Anyone else in PAL land agree to what I've said on the workflow- basically once it's locked off and you don't need audio, you can use the video once converted to 25fps.

Cheers, Sparky

Kalunga Lima · February 22nd, 2009, 09:37 AM

To me this is not acceptable. I think that as consumers we "vote" with our pocket books. As much as I would like to get one now, I'm going to wait until Canon pronounces itself on the matter. I know that I would be very very upset if a month or two from having bought a new 5D MKII, if Canon announced that there isn't going to be a firmware update and that I'd have to buy the new "5D MarkII B" to get 25p capability. If the issue is firmware "upgradeable" than it's time Canon makes a statement. Lastly, DSLR brand loyalty is largely because of the lenses, to have to buy Nikon glass to obtain basic control of your image, is an insult.

Jon Fairhurst · February 22nd, 2009, 12:46 PM

For sports highlights, I'd treat 30p as a 20% overcrank.

Last fall (before the D90 and 5D MkII were available), my son produced a video promoting a local rugby team (yes, here in Washington State, USA!) He shot interview scenes at 24p and the sports scenes at 30p. The end product was 24p with the sports scenes slowed down. For effect, he also used a fast shutter on the action clips, used interesting colors, and added some glow diffusion. With driving music, the result was excellent, as it highlighted the excitement of the sport.

Having 30p in a 25p country isn't all bad. ;)

Xavier Plagaro · March 8th, 2009, 04:41 AM

>I think that as consumers we "vote" with our pocket books.

+1 No money to Canon until they solve us europeans!!!

Daniel Ridicki · March 8th, 2009, 11:44 AM

You say 'For sports highlights, I'd treat 30p as a 20% over crank.' Does it mean you do not transcode 30 fps to 24 at all? Do you simply leave it as an 30 fps insert in 24 fps timeline? Because, I can live with 20% over crank if I can leave 30fps shots on my timeline as is, without transcoding it to 25 fps and therefore lose quality. I would only use 5d2 footage for steady shoots of architecture and landscapes. can you please confirm this. Thanks.

Jon Fairhurst · March 8th, 2009, 03:31 PM

Hi Daniel,

It depends on the editing system, but in general, you would put the footage on your target timeline - and slow it down by 24/30 (or 23.976/30 or 25/30, depending on your output format.) Do that and there's no processing of any kind, and no skipped frames. This doesn't work well with dialog scenes (you'd also have to slow down the audio), but assuming that you're showing sports highlights over modern music, the audio doesn't much matter. You can still use slowed down audio for grunts, collisions and other sound effects.

Peter Berg · March 8th, 2009, 05:57 PM

Hi guys,

greetings from Australia... we're in PAL land also. Here's a sample/test of playing every frame (shot at 30fsp) at 25fps (John's 20% overcrank - sounds much better!) Gives a great effect if that's what you're after. HAD to use a tripod though - lens is the 24-70/2.8 with no IS.

video opener using 5DMk11 on Vimeo

I ran the raw footage through Compressor, converting to pro res, and selected "so source frames play at source".

cheers
peter berg (newbie)

Jon Fairhurst · March 8th, 2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Berg

...Here's a sample/test of playing every frame (shot at 30fsp) at 25fps...

Looks great! It's especially effective with your choice of music. The slowed down video has a calm, dreamy feel. But it's not so slow to be distracting.

BTW, if that's slowed down, the cars at the end were going really, really fast. ;)

(Nice titles, BTW.)

February 22nd, 2009, 08:33 AM	#1
Mark McCarthy Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Westcliff-On-Sea, Essex, England Posts: 154	Shooting in PAL land with 5D Hi all I am based in the UK and run a small video productions company in the South East. I just bought a new 5D MK2, with three fast Nikon lenses (28mm, 50mm , 135mm) and an adaptor. I shoot a lot of highlight videos for sporting events for the sponsors. Now, I'd love and would pay a lot for this camera to shoot 25 frames a second, and hopefully we'll get a firmware upgrade shortly. But for the moment, I plan to just shoot locked off stuff with the camera mounted on a tripod, to capture some really nice scenic shots, branding shots etc, without any audio, not needed. Then when I convert the 30 frames footage to 25 in Vegas, you can get by with the footage. The locked off shots I've played with look fine. Naturally as soon as the camera moves, the juddering is too bad. The images it produces are amazing, esp in low light and I am very happy to work within the cameras limitations in light for what it can produce. The quality exceeds any video camera I have ever seen. Anyone else in PAL land agree to what I've said on the workflow- basically once it's locked off and you don't need audio, you can use the video once converted to 25fps. Cheers, Sparky

February 22nd, 2009, 09:37 AM	#2
Kalunga Lima Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Luanda - ANGOLA & Lisbon - PORTUGAL Posts: 160	To me this is not acceptable. I think that as consumers we "vote" with our pocket books. As much as I would like to get one now, I'm going to wait until Canon pronounces itself on the matter. I know that I would be very very upset if a month or two from having bought a new 5D MKII, if Canon announced that there isn't going to be a firmware update and that I'd have to buy the new "5D MarkII B" to get 25p capability. If the issue is firmware "upgradeable" than it's time Canon makes a statement. Lastly, DSLR brand loyalty is largely because of the lenses, to have to buy Nikon glass to obtain basic control of your image, is an insult. __________________ Kalunga Lima PMW-350, PDW-F350, PDW-EX1, MacBookPro, MacPro 8-Core, Final Cut Studio 2, Canon 5D MkII

February 22nd, 2009, 12:46 PM	#3
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	For sports highlights, I'd treat 30p as a 20% overcrank. Last fall (before the D90 and 5D MkII were available), my son produced a video promoting a local rugby team (yes, here in Washington State, USA!) He shot interview scenes at 24p and the sports scenes at 30p. The end product was 24p with the sports scenes slowed down. For effect, he also used a fast shutter on the action clips, used interesting colors, and added some glow diffusion. With driving music, the result was excellent, as it highlighted the excitement of the sport. Having 30p in a 25p country isn't all bad. ;) __________________ Jon Fairhurst

March 8th, 2009, 11:44 AM	#5
Daniel Ridicki Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 124	John You say 'For sports highlights, I'd treat 30p as a 20% over crank.' Does it mean you do not transcode 30 fps to 24 at all? Do you simply leave it as an 30 fps insert in 24 fps timeline? Because, I can live with 20% over crank if I can leave 30fps shots on my timeline as is, without transcoding it to 25 fps and therefore lose quality. I would only use 5d2 footage for steady shoots of architecture and landscapes. can you please confirm this. Thanks.

March 8th, 2009, 03:31 PM	#6
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Hi Daniel, It depends on the editing system, but in general, you would put the footage on your target timeline - and slow it down by 24/30 (or 23.976/30 or 25/30, depending on your output format.) Do that and there's no processing of any kind, and no skipped frames. This doesn't work well with dialog scenes (you'd also have to slow down the audio), but assuming that you're showing sports highlights over modern music, the audio doesn't much matter. You can still use slowed down audio for grunts, collisions and other sound effects. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

March 8th, 2009, 04:41 AM	#4
Xavier Plagaro Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Rome, Italy Posts: 90	>I think that as consumers we "vote" with our pocket books. +1 No money to Canon until they solve us europeans!!!

March 8th, 2009, 05:57 PM	#7
Peter Berg Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 31	pal conversion Hi guys, greetings from Australia... we're in PAL land also. Here's a sample/test of playing every frame (shot at 30fsp) at 25fps (John's 20% overcrank - sounds much better!) Gives a great effect if that's what you're after. HAD to use a tripod though - lens is the 24-70/2.8 with no IS. video opener using 5DMk11 on Vimeo I ran the raw footage through Compressor, converting to pro res, and selected "so source frames play at source". cheers peter berg (newbie)