Crush problem solved

Greg Joyce · January 21st, 2009, 10:45 PM

From Stu:

ProLost: Quicktime 7.6 Fixes 5D Movies

Josh Dahlberg · January 22nd, 2009, 01:07 AM

Spread the word: it works! This is a big deal.

Fixes the clipping also. No more need for cumbersome work-arounds.

Yay!

Dan Chung · January 22nd, 2009, 02:26 AM

Great news, I can't wait to test this one

Dan

Darren Jew · January 22nd, 2009, 06:11 AM

funny, I saw the quicktime update come in today, but delayed installing it due to a massive archiving/copying job I'm enduring... now can't wait for the last 500GB to copy!

Yang Wen · January 22nd, 2009, 09:05 AM

Now we just need a easily accessible transcoding app

Guy Cochran · January 22nd, 2009, 12:38 PM

Yea!

On Tuesday I did a presentation on the 5D Mark II to the local Final Cut Pro group. I shot this footage live in front of the audience and transcoded the "before" clip using QuickTime 7.5.5 in Compressor, it's the one on the right. I upgraded to 7.6 and recompressed today using the same Apple ProRes setting. You can see the "after" on the left. Look at the difference in shadow detail.

Joey Atilano · January 22nd, 2009, 12:42 PM

Does this help if you use Vegas to edit?

Mike Calla · January 22nd, 2009, 12:58 PM

It looks much better than before, on Vegas anyways. Histogram does show gaps though, worries me?! ...Performance still slow.

Jim Giberti · January 22nd, 2009, 01:39 PM

There's no question that it's completely fixed on my system. It's a "whole" image for the first time - like a new camera. Thanks for a quick response Apple. Now I'm really psyched.

Evan Donn · January 22nd, 2009, 04:51 PM

strange, just ran the update and seeing no change here...

Rich Castro · January 22nd, 2009, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Calla

It looks much better than before, on Vegas anyways. Histogram does show gaps though, worries me?! ...Performance still slow.

I can handle slow, but is it stable? I was never able to get in more then a dozen or so clips before it crashes.

Am I the only one with this problem? I would love to use proxies, but I can never revert back to the originals without crashing.

Keith Paisley · January 22nd, 2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Castro

I can handle slow, but is it stable? I was never able to get in more then a dozen or so clips before it crashes.

Am I the only one with this problem? I would love to use proxies, but I can never revert back to the originals without crashing.

you're not the only one - I reported the same problem in the original thread I started yesterday. The very first project (Vegas) I tried re-rendering had 30 clips, so when I switched out the proxy files, it simply crashed. I was hoping it might be something limited to my system configuration :(. Oh well, maybe 7.6.1 will come out in 6 months and it will fix it.

Jon Fairhurst · January 22nd, 2009, 07:29 PM

The new Quicktime solution is good for a quick fix. It works in Vegas. (I don't know about other NLEs. Sorry.) However, be aware of the following:
* The new Quicktime decoder captures the blacks and whites (yay!), but slightly increases the gamma. Your mid tones will be brighter, and there will be some black stretch.
* The adjustments are done with an 8-bit output. The result is gaps and peaks in the histogram. This could lead to slightly more contouring and quantization error.

Fortunately,
* You can still do the re-wrap trick in Vegas. You still need to do the re-size and re-center thing.
* The re-wrap levels are the same as before - perfect. There are no gaps all the way from 0 to 255.

The Bottom Line:
* Upgrade!
* Feel free to use the MOV file for quick work, especially if you don't plan to color correct.
* Maybe the brighter gamma levels look good, maybe not. It's a judgment call.
* Rewrap to MP4 if you want the best possible quality, don't want the boosted mid-tones, or if you plan to color correct. For color grading, you want all the levels you can get.

I would prefer if the decoded output was more faithful to the camera output, but I'm not complaining. The new decoder gives us a solution for fast turnaround, without the black crush. And we can still re-wrap for best quality.

Jay Bloomfield · January 22nd, 2009, 09:48 PM

@Jon,

I can confirm that I'm getting the same results (gamma, mid-tones etc.) as you have, with both Premiere CS3 and Vegas 8.0c. I used the scopes to compare the 5D MKII 2 MOV file to a Cineform AVI file that was converted from the original MOV file.

Marten Dalfors · January 23rd, 2009, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

Fortunately,
* You can still do the re-wrap trick in Vegas. You still need to do the re-size and re-center thing.
* The re-wrap levels are the same as before - perfect. There are no gaps all the way from 0 to 255.

If you do the rewrap, I made some scripts to make life easier for the re-size and re-center. Check out my post at http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/998409-post21.html

January 21st, 2009, 10:45 PM	#1
Greg Joyce Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 106	Crush problem solved - QT 7.6 From Stu: ProLost: Quicktime 7.6 Fixes 5D Movies

January 22nd, 2009, 06:11 AM	#4
Darren Jew New Boot Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 18	funny, I saw the quicktime update come in today, but delayed installing it due to a massive archiving/copying job I'm enduring... now can't wait for the last 500GB to copy! __________________ Darren Jew \| sunny Queensland, Australia ... learning about moving pictures after 25+ years of still ones ...

January 22nd, 2009, 12:38 PM	#6
Guy Cochran DVCreators.Net Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 892	Yea! On Tuesday I did a presentation on the 5D Mark II to the local Final Cut Pro group. I shot this footage live in front of the audience and transcoded the "before" clip using QuickTime 7.5.5 in Compressor, it's the one on the right. I upgraded to 7.6 and recompressed today using the same Apple ProRes setting. You can see the "after" on the left. Look at the difference in shadow detail. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Guy Cochran DVinfo Sponsor, Cool Gear - DVeStore! Last edited by Guy Cochran; January 22nd, 2009 at 07:20 PM.

January 22nd, 2009, 12:42 PM	#7
Joey Atilano Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Garden Grove CA Posts: 239	Does this help if you use Vegas to edit? __________________ My videos http://www.youtube.com/user/lucasberg

January 22nd, 2009, 12:58 PM	#8
Mike Calla Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Shanghai Posts: 344	It looks much better than before, on Vegas anyways. Histogram does show gaps though, worries me?! ...Performance still slow. __________________ boxoutsidemedia.com

January 22nd, 2009, 01:07 AM	#2
Josh Dahlberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 513	Spread the word: it works! This is a big deal. Fixes the clipping also. No more need for cumbersome work-arounds. Yay!

January 22nd, 2009, 02:26 AM	#3
Dan Chung Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Beijing Posts: 665	Great news, I can't wait to test this one Dan

January 22nd, 2009, 09:05 AM	#5
Yang Wen Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 991	Now we just need a easily accessible transcoding app

January 22nd, 2009, 01:39 PM	#9
Jim Giberti Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bethel, VT Posts: 824	There's no question that it's completely fixed on my system. It's a "whole" image for the first time - like a new camera. Thanks for a quick response Apple. Now I'm really psyched.

January 22nd, 2009, 04:51 PM	#10
Evan Donn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 795	strange, just ran the update and seeing no change here... __________________ My latest short documentary: "Four Pauls: Bring the Hat Back!"

January 22nd, 2009, 07:29 PM	#13
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	The new Quicktime solution is good for a quick fix. It works in Vegas. (I don't know about other NLEs. Sorry.) However, be aware of the following: * The new Quicktime decoder captures the blacks and whites (yay!), but slightly increases the gamma. Your mid tones will be brighter, and there will be some black stretch. * The adjustments are done with an 8-bit output. The result is gaps and peaks in the histogram. This could lead to slightly more contouring and quantization error. Fortunately, * You can still do the re-wrap trick in Vegas. You still need to do the re-size and re-center thing. * The re-wrap levels are the same as before - perfect. There are no gaps all the way from 0 to 255. The Bottom Line: * Upgrade! * Feel free to use the MOV file for quick work, especially if you don't plan to color correct. * Maybe the brighter gamma levels look good, maybe not. It's a judgment call. * Rewrap to MP4 if you want the best possible quality, don't want the boosted mid-tones, or if you plan to color correct. For color grading, you want all the levels you can get. I would prefer if the decoded output was more faithful to the camera output, but I'm not complaining. The new decoder gives us a solution for fast turnaround, without the black crush. And we can still re-wrap for best quality. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

January 22nd, 2009, 09:48 PM	#14
Jay Bloomfield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Voorheesville, NY Posts: 433	@Jon, I can confirm that I'm getting the same results (gamma, mid-tones etc.) as you have, with both Premiere CS3 and Vegas 8.0c. I used the scopes to compare the 5D MKII 2 MOV file to a Cineform AVI file that was converted from the original MOV file.