Does the Canon EOS 5D Mk. II have a quality codec?

[Holger Neuhaeuser]

I think the best and easiest workaround for getting the full range clip into finalcut is recapturing from the 5d´s hdmi output.

I playback all videos on my cf card with the slideshow (only movies) function of the 5d. I convert the hdmi signal from the 5d with a convergent design convertor to hd-sdi and capture with a blackmagic hd card directly into the prores codec.

That means the process takes as long as the clips on your cf card last.

converting with any other method in compressor or color is not faster.

Works perfect for me. Easiest approach would be using a capturing card with a hdmi input like the blackmagic intensity. Then you don´t have to convert the hdmi signal to hd-sdi.

Regards
Holger

[Mathieu Kassovitz]

Originally Posted by Holger Neuhaeuser

I think the best and easiest workaround for getting the full range clip into finalcut is recapturing from the 5d´s hdmi output.

I playback all videos on my cf card with the slideshow (only movies) function of the 5d. I convert the hdmi signal from the 5d with a convergent design convertor to hd-sdi and capture with a blackmagic hd card directly into the prores codec.

That means the process takes as long as the clips on your cf card last.

converting with any other method in compressor or color is not faster.

Works perfect for me. Easiest approach would be using a capturing card with a hdmi input like the blackmagic intensity. Then you don´t have to convert the hdmi signal to hd-sdi.

Regards
Holger

Why? Isn't it the same than a simple transfer from the CF card to your NLE?

[Holger Neuhaeuser]

No its not the same

If you transfer from your CF card directly into Finalcut (or any other NLE using Quicktime codecs) you get the strange effect of clipped blacks and whites cause not the whole 0-255 range of the signal will be used. Only 17-235 will be used.
In short, that means clipped blacks and whites unless you use one of the software workarounds posted in an other thread in this forum.

If you recapture from the hdmi output of the 5d this effect will not happen.

I think the software workarounds take longer and are more labour intensive. At least if you want Apple Prores as your target format.

[Mike Hannon]

Originally Posted by Holger Neuhaeuser

I think the best and easiest workaround for getting the full range clip into finalcut is recapturing from the 5d´s hdmi output.

I playback all videos on my cf card with the slideshow (only movies) function of the 5d. I convert the hdmi signal from the 5d with a convergent design convertor to hd-sdi and capture with a blackmagic hd card directly into the prores codec.

That means the process takes as long as the clips on your cf card last.

converting with any other method in compressor or color is not faster.

Works perfect for me. Easiest approach would be using a capturing card with a hdmi input like the blackmagic intensity. Then you don´t have to convert the hdmi signal to hd-sdi.

Regards
Holger

Hi Holger,

I took a look at the specs of the Blackmagic Intensity Pro and it seems that it captures 1080i 59.94fps. Is this an issue, given that the 5D files are 1080p 30fps?

Also, what is the difference in file size?

I've heard that capturing in this manner makes real time editing and effects a lot easier so I'm intrigued by this option, as well as the advantage of recovering the full range.

[Holger Neuhaeuser]

(I took a look at the specs of the Blackmagic Intensity Pro and it seems that it captures 1080i 59.94fps. Is this an issue, given that the 5D files are 1080p 30fps?)

No its not an issue, because the pictures are already progressive when they come out of the 5d. So you see no difference.

(Also, what is the difference in file size?)

That´s a huge difference. I can put about 40 minutes of video on a 16GB card in the 5d.
When exported those 40 minutes take about 4 times more harddisk space (64 GB)

(I've heard that capturing in this manner makes real time editing and effects a lot easier so I'm intrigued by this option, as well as the advantage of recovering the full range.)

Yes working in prores does really work very well and fast (at least on a quadcore macpro).
Working in the H264 codec that the 5d outputs is painfully slow.

I can live with this strange approach of taking the nonlinear clips on the cf card and redigitizing them as in the old hdv times. You don´t have to convert anything and you don´t loose information.

[Jay Bloomfield]

Well, it appears that there still are some questions, as to whether the 5D MKII shoots in cRGB or sRGB. Here's another discussion:

CineForm Insider

[Elizabeth Lowrey]

Originally Posted by Mathieu Kassovitz

What's the best post-production work-around in your opinion?

I'm not sure there is a work around for the problems I mentioned. I must say, however, that my second set of tests, shot yesterday in daylight, show substantially less of the fine jittery noise than I noticed in some of the night shots. I won't know what factors most contribute to its presence until I've done more filming under a variety of conditions and carefully inspected the images afterward.

I downloaded Cineform Neo HD and will likely end up buying it, at least by the time I get a RED Scarlet later this year. When perfected, this workflow will, I believe, represent the best post production experience with Canon files. Full res Cineform encodes played back at full frame rate on my Core 2 Duo/2 GB system, and the dynamic range and gamma were properly handled. Of course it's not cheap ($500).

However the current version of Neo HD will not handle the Canon audio and also will not process files in the included batch processing utility (HD Link) at native 30.00 fps. It worked to encode to 29.97 fps, which is obviously preferable as a mainstream frame rate, but I noticed some mild softening of the image when doing this, so I don't think they will have their Canon 5d support nailed down until the next version of Neo HD is released.

Right now I'm using the Vegas workflow outlined by Keith Paisley in post #45 of the http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-eos...orkflow-3.html thread. So I'm using the stripped down Cineform encoder that comes with Vegas and working at 720p resolution.

[Mathieu Kassovitz]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth Lowrey

I'm not sure there is a work around for the problems I mentioned. I must say, however, that my second set of tests, shot yesterday in daylight, show substantially less of the fine jittery noise than I noticed in some of the night shots. I won't know what factors most contribute to its presence until I've done more filming under a variety of conditions and carefully inspected the images afterward.

I downloaded Cineform Neo HD and will likely end up buying it, at least by the time I get a RED Scarlet later this year. When perfected, this workflow will, I believe, represent the best post production experience with Canon files. Full res Cineform encodes played back at full frame rate on my Core 2 Duo/2 GB system, and the dynamic range and gamma were properly handled. Of course it's not cheap ($500).

However the current version of Neo HD will not handle the Canon audio and also will not process files in the included batch processing utility (HD Link) at native 30.00 fps. It worked to encode to 29.97 fps, which is obviously preferable as a mainstream frame rate, but I noticed some mild softening of the image when doing this, so I don't think they will have their Canon 5d support nailed down until the next version of Neo HD is released.

Right now I'm using the Vegas workflow outlined by Keith Paisley in post #45 of the http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-eos...orkflow-3.html thread. So I'm using the stripped down Cineform encoder that comes with Vegas and working at 720p resolution.

And at native 1080p?

[Mathieu Kassovitz]

Originally Posted by Holger Neuhaeuser

(I took a look at the specs of the Blackmagic Intensity Pro and it seems that it captures 1080i 59.94fps. Is this an issue, given that the 5D files are 1080p 30fps?)

No its not an issue, because the pictures are already progressive when they come out of the 5d. So you see no difference.

(Also, what is the difference in file size?)

That´s a huge difference. I can put about 40 minutes of video on a 16GB card in the 5d.
When exported those 40 minutes take about 4 times more harddisk space (64 GB)

(I've heard that capturing in this manner makes real time editing and effects a lot easier so I'm intrigued by this option, as well as the advantage of recovering the full range.)

Yes working in prores does really work very well and fast (at least on a quadcore macpro).
Working in the H264 codec that the 5d outputs is painfully slow.

I can live with this strange approach of taking the nonlinear clips on the cf card and redigitizing them as in the old hdv times. You don´t have to convert anything and you don´t loose information.

Noticeable blocking? How do you deal with it?

[Evan Donn]

Originally Posted by Holger Neuhaeuser

converting with any other method in compressor or color is not faster.

Depends on your workflow and shooting ratios. If you rough cut in the native files to eliminate footage you don't need then the conversion process may be significantly faster than capturing everything upfront. Also, using native files means you can have someone doing that rough cut while you continue shooting - you don't need to tie up the camera waiting for it to capture, and you don't need to have enough CF cards to cover your entire day's shoot.

[Elizabeth Lowrey]

Originally Posted by Mathieu Kassovitz

And at native 1080p?

Hi, Mathieu.

When using the trial version of Neo HD, I encoded to full res, 1920 x 1080p intermediates.

The "light" version of Cineform that comes with Vegas doesn't support encoding to resolutions above HDV (1440 x 1080, 1.3333 anamorphic pixels). I didn't try encoding to that max resolution and instead opted for square pixels at 1280 x 720, but I presume the 1440 x 1080 anamorphic works and that you could retain the full vertical resolution that way.