I am a prophet but I don't want...

Greg Joyce · December 13th, 2008, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

I'm in the same boat, Marcus. I want one Canon zoom. Everything else will be a Nikon prime. Given manual aperture control, I'd be buying Canon lenses without hesitation.

So if I understand this -- I'm a Canon XHA1 guy, not a photography guy but seriously considering the 5D Mark II for indie filmmaking -- you guys would recommend Nikon lenses with a Canon-Nikon adapter because used Nikon lenses are good, cheap, and readily available, and 1 Canon zoom. Is that right?

Which Canon zoom do you like?

Don Miller · December 13th, 2008, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Joyce

So if I understand this -- I'm a Canon XHA1 guy, not a photography guy but seriously considering the 5D Mark II for indie filmmaking -- you guys would recommend Nikon lenses with a Canon-Nikon adapter because used Nikon lenses are good, cheap, and readily available, and 1 Canon zoom. Is that right?

Which Canon zoom do you like?

If you want DOF control, you'll need a f2.8 zoom. For the normal range that would be the 24-70L.
If f4 is fast enough you could get the 24-105L IS. IS is image stabilization that does work if the camera is on the shoulder.

I have fast primes and four zooms:
Nikon 14-24 and t Canon 24-105L IS, 70-200l F4 IS, 100-400L IS

Marcus Marchesseault · December 13th, 2008, 06:30 PM

Greg, this thread being about the inevitability of video cameras going to larger chips for the huge increase in image quality brought us to talk about what must happen to make a DSLR a video camera. Canon made a big mistake in de-activating manual iris on the 5DII. A workaround to this problem is to use manual focus Nikon lenses and an adapter. To get image stabilization capability (and also auto-focus?) a Canon lens is needed. I'm thinking of getting something like the Canon EF 28-135 IS for its very practical zoom range and affordability. It is well-reviewed and I think mentioned in threads around here as suitable for the 5DII.

Canon | EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Image Stabilizer | 2562A002AA

I am not an expert on Canon lenses, DSLRs for video, or anything really, but a lens like that or better seems to be a decent choice. I wish there was a 28-135 f2.8 with image stabilization. It seems that the low f-number zooms are either super wide or zoom only (like 70-200mm). To make a DSLR work more like a video camera it just makes sense to have a lens that covers fairly wide to moderate zoom without the need to change lenses. I prefer to work up close to reduce shakes anyway so 135mm zoom is just about enough for me.

Luke Raymond · December 13th, 2008, 07:36 PM

Marcus,

I've got that the Canon EF 28-135 IS and I've used it with both the 5D Mk II as well as a Brevis/Canon XH-A1 and you can only use it outside in natural sunlight. It doesn't work well indoors. You'll need something faster if you want to get decent indoor video.

I even find the 24-105L f4 IS to weak indoors. I generally go to a faster lens like a f1.4 or a f2.

Greg Joyce · December 13th, 2008, 07:51 PM

Thanks for the info, guys!

--Greg

Marcus Marchesseault · December 13th, 2008, 08:01 PM

Luke, its definitely better to hear it from someone with experience. I figured that the 5DII is so much more sensitive than other video cameras that it could handle a slower lens indoors. Going down to f1.4 means prime lenses and I already have some Nikons that can do the job. I'm just hoping for something to enable IS for walkaround shots. I've seen some video with the f4 zoom and it looked quite good so I figured f5.6 would only be one step darker than the f4 zoom.

Luke Raymond · December 13th, 2008, 08:11 PM

The camera is amazing in low light, but you have to keep your ISO in check if you don't want grain. When I use that lens in low light the camera cranks it up to 2500 or 3200 ISO, which becomes very grainy. When I use my 50mm f1.4 or my 135 f2.0L, the ISO is below 1000.

Natural light is a totally different matter. The 28-135 is actually decent outside. It does vignette a bit at the 135 on a full frame though.

Don Miller · December 13th, 2008, 09:37 PM

28-135IS is not a particularly good lens - it's soft wide open. I have this lens.

Marcus Marchesseault · December 13th, 2008, 10:21 PM

I guess we are getting away from the initial topic, but how does one choose a lens to make this camera behave most like a video camera? The zoom range of 28-135 is adequate for event video where the operator is expected to move. It should be fine for interviews with one to three subjects as it can get wide or zoom a bit to get a tight head shot. It wouldn't be right for sports but I'm guessing something like the 70-200mm f2.8 might be the trick? Is the 24-70 f2.8 and 70-200 f2.8 the only way to get video-like range with the 5DII without hurting image quality? Those aren't cheap lenses and changing at 70mm is not ideal. I would rather have a 35mm-105mm low f-number lens than to get stuck changing lenses at 70mm.

Is this camera prime lens workable only indoors?

I have a cheap nikon-mount 28-200 lens which I guess I could use to give me an idea of what primes I need. I guess this camera creates as many problems as it solves. How fast can lenses change? Does the camera need to re-boot between lenses? I've never used a DSLR (just film) and $3000 is a lot of money for me to spend and not have a lens setup that can work. If f5.6 is insufficient indoors then the kit f4 lens isn't all that much better so I'm not so sure I'll spring for that one.

Oleg Kalyan · December 14th, 2008, 10:30 AM

Does anyone know if for example Nikkor 70 200 2.8 VR lens will work on Canon via adapter?
How would you control the aperture, (there is no outside aperture ring ) ?

Josh Brusin · December 16th, 2008, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Galvan

But what about their next high-end video camcorder?

Why do I feel like we will see a significant change here to the current XL in terms of tech specs.

I mean, with the 5DMarkII out and the interest that has spawned from it, I would think Canon at least understands that their next high-end HD Camcorder (XLH2) would have to surpass the video quality that comes out of their DSLR that costs 4 times less. They can't shoot themselves in the foot like that.

So what's interesting to me is not what the next iteration of this tech will be like in their higher end 1D series SLRs, but more importantly in their next XL camera.

Imagine it having 3 35mm Full Frame HD CMOS Sensors, with something like 3.1 MegaPixels per sensor ... damn, the low light on that thing would be insane! We could probably count the individual pixels on the sensors :)

love them or hate them Canon has built their video system around their lenses... They just need to figure out a way to rig coverage into their glass.... oh yeah, they have that EF adapter already... that's foresight. Or just awareness of how their slr-business has succeeded for decades.

It is all about the glass... and it's finally in prosumer video!

Josh Brusin · December 16th, 2008, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg Kalyan

Does anyone know if for example Nikkor 70 200 2.8 VR lens will work on Canon via adapter?
How would you control the aperture, (there is no outside aperture ring ) ?

You can't. The closest thing I've seen is an electrical tab on the Leica R adapter that enables the focus-beep feature which is pretty awesome I might add.

Toenis Liivamaegi · December 16th, 2008, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Brusin

You can't. The closest thing I've seen is an electrical tab on the Leica R adapter that enables the focus-beep feature which is pretty awesome I might add.

It is available but not cheap: Using Nikon lenses on Canon cameras KenRockwell.com
Direct link to documentation: http://www.16-9.net/nikon_g/nikon_g_doc.pdf
You're welcome.

Cheers,
T

December 13th, 2008, 07:36 PM	#19
Luke Raymond Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 33	Marcus, I've got that the Canon EF 28-135 IS and I've used it with both the 5D Mk II as well as a Brevis/Canon XH-A1 and you can only use it outside in natural sunlight. It doesn't work well indoors. You'll need something faster if you want to get decent indoor video. I even find the 24-105L f4 IS to weak indoors. I generally go to a faster lens like a f1.4 or a f2. __________________ http://blog.imagoweddings.com/ www.imagoweddings.com

December 13th, 2008, 08:11 PM	#22
Luke Raymond Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 33	The camera is amazing in low light, but you have to keep your ISO in check if you don't want grain. When I use that lens in low light the camera cranks it up to 2500 or 3200 ISO, which becomes very grainy. When I use my 50mm f1.4 or my 135 f2.0L, the ISO is below 1000. Natural light is a totally different matter. The 28-135 is actually decent outside. It does vignette a bit at the 135 on a full frame though. __________________ http://blog.imagoweddings.com/ www.imagoweddings.com

December 13th, 2008, 06:30 PM	#18
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	Greg, this thread being about the inevitability of video cameras going to larger chips for the huge increase in image quality brought us to talk about what must happen to make a DSLR a video camera. Canon made a big mistake in de-activating manual iris on the 5DII. A workaround to this problem is to use manual focus Nikon lenses and an adapter. To get image stabilization capability (and also auto-focus?) a Canon lens is needed. I'm thinking of getting something like the Canon EF 28-135 IS for its very practical zoom range and affordability. It is well-reviewed and I think mentioned in threads around here as suitable for the 5DII. Canon \| EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Image Stabilizer \| 2562A002AA I am not an expert on Canon lenses, DSLRs for video, or anything really, but a lens like that or better seems to be a decent choice. I wish there was a 28-135 f2.8 with image stabilization. It seems that the low f-number zooms are either super wide or zoom only (like 70-200mm). To make a DSLR work more like a video camera it just makes sense to have a lens that covers fairly wide to moderate zoom without the need to change lenses. I prefer to work up close to reduce shakes anyway so 135mm zoom is just about enough for me.

December 13th, 2008, 07:51 PM	#20
Greg Joyce Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 106	Thanks for the info, guys! --Greg

December 13th, 2008, 08:01 PM	#21
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	Luke, its definitely better to hear it from someone with experience. I figured that the 5DII is so much more sensitive than other video cameras that it could handle a slower lens indoors. Going down to f1.4 means prime lenses and I already have some Nikons that can do the job. I'm just hoping for something to enable IS for walkaround shots. I've seen some video with the f4 zoom and it looked quite good so I figured f5.6 would only be one step darker than the f4 zoom.

December 13th, 2008, 09:37 PM	#23
Don Miller Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 706	28-135IS is not a particularly good lens - it's soft wide open. I have this lens.

December 13th, 2008, 10:21 PM	#24
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	I guess we are getting away from the initial topic, but how does one choose a lens to make this camera behave most like a video camera? The zoom range of 28-135 is adequate for event video where the operator is expected to move. It should be fine for interviews with one to three subjects as it can get wide or zoom a bit to get a tight head shot. It wouldn't be right for sports but I'm guessing something like the 70-200mm f2.8 might be the trick? Is the 24-70 f2.8 and 70-200 f2.8 the only way to get video-like range with the 5DII without hurting image quality? Those aren't cheap lenses and changing at 70mm is not ideal. I would rather have a 35mm-105mm low f-number lens than to get stuck changing lenses at 70mm. Is this camera prime lens workable only indoors? I have a cheap nikon-mount 28-200 lens which I guess I could use to give me an idea of what primes I need. I guess this camera creates as many problems as it solves. How fast can lenses change? Does the camera need to re-boot between lenses? I've never used a DSLR (just film) and $3000 is a lot of money for me to spend and not have a lens setup that can work. If f5.6 is insufficient indoors then the kit f4 lens isn't all that much better so I'm not so sure I'll spring for that one.

December 14th, 2008, 10:30 AM	#25
Oleg Kalyan Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: MOSCOW Posts: 860	Does anyone know if for example Nikkor 70 200 2.8 VR lens will work on Canon via adapter? How would you control the aperture, (there is no outside aperture ring ) ?