Full HD on Canon EOS 5D Mk. II -- officially announced

[Stephen van Vuuren]

I just looked at the sample clips on dpreview - pretty impressive. Seems to have the same rolling shutter (when branch moves rapidly) as the D90 though until we see some side by side tests, it will be hard to compare.

But the choice of codec and data rate is interesting. Canon has gone better quality and compression vs. post processing.

Very interesting times.

[Chris Hurd]

This is getting too far off topic for my taste, so here's the last mention of it in this thread.

Originally Posted by Stephen van Vuuren

Canon using "24f" instead of 24p as all others refer to full resolution progressive.

Incorrect. There have been a number of "fake" 24p processes in the past that were not full resolution progressive and which had horrible motion signature. But it isn't the resolution that makes or breaks 24p; it's the cadence.

...they appear to use interlaced CCDs as their core tech and derive progressive instead of starting native progressive sensors and moving from there.

Incorrect. In Frame mode, those sensors are clocked as progressive and sampled as progressive. In Frame mode, it's as if it is a progressive sensor block. 24p is not "derived" but created from a full progressive mode (this is one of the biggest misunderstandings that some people have about Frame mode).

surprising it's only 30p given the market...

Incorrect. The vast majority of the market for the EOS 5D Mk. II would have *no idea* what to do with 24p. 24p appeals only to a very small slice of the overall market. Most people have no idea what it is or how to use it.

...not to mention the savings in storage that 24p would offer and/or gentler compression.

Incorrectly oversimplified. The frame rate does not dictate compression efficiency nearly as much as the processor. You could have one camera shooting 24p and another shooting 60p, and if the DSP and the encoding process on the 60p camera is more efficient, then it could provide gentler compression.

Far too much attention is mistakenly given to the image sensor -- the overall process is far more complicated and relies on many components working together, the most important of which is the processor.

And now... back to our 5D programming (there will be no further Frame mode interruptions -- please take any Frame mode questions to the appropriate threads in our Canon XH and XL boards -- thanks in advance),

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Josh Laronge

Specs say the video is limited to 4gb it remains to be seen if this is because of the camera and/or the cards.

It's a limitation of the camera, not the CF cards. From the press release:

"The EOS 5D Mark II will record video up to 4GB per clip or a maximum continuous movie capture time of 29 minutes and 59 seconds, whichever comes first. Depending on the level of detail in the scene, a 4GB memory card can record approximately 12 minutes of video at full HD resolution or approximately 24 minutes in standard definition."

In my opinion, they're confusing things a bit by referring to the capacity of a 4GB card in the sentence immediately following the statement about the 4GB clip limit.

[Stephen van Vuuren]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Incorrect. The vast majority of the market for the EOS 5D Mk. II would have *no idea* what to do with 24p. 24p appeals only to a very small slice of the overall market. Most people have no idea what it is or how to use it.

I was oversimplying things because the 5D is point of discussion here.

But per 24p on the 5D, I have a hard time seeing how you think I'm "incorrect" that there is a tiny market for that feature. Nikon is promoting 24p on the consumer priced D90 and Canon's success with 24p on the HV20/30 says otherwise.

The 5D is popular camera amongst film and video people. I have no access to sales numbers, but unless you have hard numbers that show 24p to have no signifigant impact on 5D MkII sales, then I think it's a valid point.

Incorrectly oversimplified. The frame rate does not dictate compression efficiency nearly as much as the processor. You could have one camera shooting 24p and another shooting 60p, and if the DSP and the encoding process on the 60p camera is more efficient, then it could provide gentler compression.

I was referring to on this camera only - the codec and processor are already fixed. Recording 24 frames instead of 30 gives you the option of less compression or less space or mix of both.

[Simon Wyndham]

Is the sensor windowed when recording 1920x1080 video? Just want to know how the DOF is affected.

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Stephen van Vuuren

but unless you have hard numbers that show 24p to have no signifigant impact on 5D MkII sales, then I think it's a valid point.

Well there are no 5D Mk. II sales yet, so all I can offer is anecdotal evidence: in my experience, talking to a *lot* of people at trade shows and other events over the years, most of them have no idea what 24p is or how to use it, including photo / video professionals. 24p is a filmmaking tool, and I've come across large numbers of folks who are not filmmakers who have no knowledge of it at all.

Recording 24 frames instead of 30 gives you the option of less compression or less space or mix of both.

It also gives you more strobing and motion judder from inexperienced handling, and a more pronounced "jello effect" from the image wobble produced by rolling-shutter CMOS. So I think it's mostly a matter of trade-offs.

The question I have is, why not offer both? Why not have 30p and 24p as selectable HD video frame rates in this camera? I'm betting there will be a firmware hack for this sometime not too far down the road once the camera gets into the CHDK community's hands.

[Dylan Couper]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Well there are no 5D Mk. II sales yet.

Speaking of... anyone know when this will be in stores in North America?

[Anmol Mishra]

Hi Chris. Its a lot harder to hack CHDK for a DSLR than for a point and shoot. Thats why all the Powershots have a CHDK but so far, theres only a bit of progress for the 40D.

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

I'm betting there will be a firmware hack for this sometime not too far down the road once the camera gets into the CHDK community's hands.

[Tim Polster]

Originally Posted by Dylan Couper

Speaking of... anyone know when this will be in stores in North America?

Supposed to be out by the end of November.

[Tom Roper]

Opinion #1: I don't think the lack of 24p is so much protecting Canon's other market segment as much as just an independent manufacturing group not in tune to the motion video world per se, but simply proclaiming "Look what we can do!"

Opinion #2: Motion from 30p is smoother and better than 24p in every way. The problem is it's a bastard frame rate for HDTV. Blu-ray for example doesn't support 30p. Now many people don't believe Blu-ray has an extended future anyway. But until there is another better consumer format for delivery, people will come up with kludges to get 5D video to play on Blu-ray. Maybe it's as simple as adding 2:2 pulldown to play at 60i. Almost everything but on Blu-ray now is 24p. Going from 30p to 24p is not pretty.

[Josh Laronge]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

The question I have is, why not offer both? Why not have 30p and 24p as selectable HD video frame rates in this camera?

The thing to remember here is that the 5dmII is a digital still camera targeted first and foremost to still photographers. The inclusion of video is an added feature that a still photographer may play with on the side. As we all know Canon makes video cameras and it wouldn't be prudent at this time in the market for Canon to offer all the features that a video camera offers when they are trying to sell video cameras too. If the 5dmII had 24p, wasn't limited in files size, offered a powered zoom, etc. what advantages would there be in buying a video camera?

Now that the announcement is 12 hours old, only a few reviewers have had their hands on one and the 5dmII won't be in stores until November, can someone please start a thread speculating on the features of the 5dmIII?

[Stephen van Vuuren]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Why not have 30p and 24p as selectable HD video frame rates in this camera? I'm betting there will be a firmware hack for this sometime not too far down the road once the camera gets into the CHDK community's hands.

I agree - 24, 23.976, 25p, 30p and 60p @ 720 would be ideal.

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Stephen van Vuuren

...720 would be ideal.

Fully agreed. I would like to have seen 720 on this camera as well as 1080.

Update: I've just added a link in my initial posts to DP Review's hands-on examination of the 5D Mk. II.

That link is http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos5dmarkII/

According to their 13-page report, there's no audio out over HDMI... that's
a shame. I'm not seeing very much other info about the HD video mode either.

[Steve Connor]

Canon's 10 megapixel SX1 IS shoots Full HD too - Engadget

So this one shoots Full HD too!

[Chris Hurd]

In the U.S., there's only the SX10 IS with no HD video, see http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/still-cra...-g10-sx10.html