Full HD on Canon EOS 5D Mk. II -- officially announced

Jenn Kramer · September 17th, 2008, 01:47 AM

This is a fascinating camera, and just shot to the top of my personal wishlist. I'd imagine that adding a 24p mode to it wouldn't be difficult for Canon to do, but the question becomes whether they want to. I'm sure we'll read a lot about it in the next few days. It's the first question I'd ask, at least.

It looks like they added 1080p HD recording to their SX1 IS that's not going to be available in North America. Their Powershot update added h264 encoding, but still only does 640x480. It sounds like they're trying hard to protect their camcorder market. The Digic 4 chip's in all the cameras they've announced and we know that Digic 4 can do 1080p HD. Not including that feature on a camera is more market segmentation and market protection than technical limitation. I imagine we'll see 1080p trickle down through their product line as it's refreshed, assuming the competition comes out with more 1080p products at lower price points. (I'm looking at you, Sony.)

In any case, this should be a pretty ground-breaking camera for those who can afford it. Being able to invest in some nice L lenses and use them for both still work and video work is really compelling. The Rebel X* series already got it's refresh and the 50d just cleared, so unless Canon decides to introduce another camera to muddle the market, I'd guess that this will be it's sole HD video SLR for at least 6 months.

Gints Klimanis · September 17th, 2008, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenn Kramer

It sounds like they're trying hard to protect their camcorder market. The Digic 4 chip's in all the cameras they've announced and we know that Digic 4 can do 1080p HD. Not including that feature on a camera is more market segmentation and market protection than technical limitation.

That's the interesting part. Nikon has no camcorders, so their cameras could have every feature without worrying about cannibalizing other market segments. Sony and Canon have this problem. There has been much protection of higher end products by Sony and Canon and even Panasonic by excluding 24p for a long time. Panasonic broke down only a few years ago, and Sony followed suit. Most of the lower end camcorders offered fake full-frame modes for 30f and 24f. Now, all of that has changed with 720p60.

Tom Hardwick · September 17th, 2008, 02:52 AM

My Golly-gosh - those should be movies and a half with a chip twice the size of the (half) frame used in the cinema!

No mention of the microphones as far as I could see (there's a lot to read) but who needs video lights now, with ISO numbers that stretch into near darkness.

I'm struggling to think of the difficulties it'll present when making movies. OK, the rear (live) screen is somewhat fixed and very limiting, and of course the zoom range will be somewhat curtailed unless you're very strong and very rich, but why are we movie types so happy with minute 1"/3 chips when 1080 movies can be shot onto massive square inches of chip? This EOS isn't even expensive alongside an EX1 Sony (½" CMOS chips).

And I'd say 25p would be the most useful frame rate.

tom.

Min Lee · September 17th, 2008, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

No mention of the microphones as far as I could see (there's a lot to read)

The new camera features an input terminal for external stereo microphones as well as a built-in monaural microphone for convenience.

Alkim Un · September 17th, 2008, 04:23 AM

I just download the movie clips from dpreview site, and put FCP timeline with Z1E and XLH1 footage side by side. I m impressed. 5D footage is better than Z1 and par or better than H1.

this my subjective evaluation though.
but we are going in to interesting times !

alkım.

Randy Panado · September 17th, 2008, 04:26 AM

Simply amazing. Canon never seems to stop surprising. I remember all the clamor about a supposed 5D MkII. Who would have ever guessed a year ago that it was going to be a video camera also....

On another note, the value of my 5D just dropped another few hundred bucks, lol.

Ray Bell · September 17th, 2008, 05:04 AM

Not sure if ths is correct as i can't find a manual for the software but

does anyone know if Red Giant " Frames " would convert the 30 frames to 24P ???

I could be wrong but I think it might....?...

Tim Polster · September 17th, 2008, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

No mention of the microphones as far as I could see (there's a lot to read) but who needs video lights now, with ISO numbers that stretch into near darkness.

There is a mic input.

We still need video lights because lighting a scene makes it look better!

Anybody know if the HDMI output is live off of the sensor?

This would go a long way if you could hook up a preview monitor.

Also, how do you think the color space compares to the video world, say 4:2:2?

This is looking like a very nice keying setup.

Stephen van Vuuren · September 17th, 2008, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Bell

Not sure if ths is correct as i can't find a manual for the software but

does anyone know if Red Giant " Frames " would convert the 30 frames to 24P ???

I could be wrong but I think it might....?...

There are several tools that do the conversion (Magic Bullet, DV Filmmaker, Nattress Filter, Revision FX) but the render time penalties are severe and motion is never 100% right. 30p to 24p happens to be an awkard way to go as well.

Much better would be to pressure to Canon to add 24p to the camera. However, Canon has been very reluctant in the true 24p world compared to Panasonic, Sony and JVC (Frame Movie Mode, 24F etc.), so we shall see.

Pat Reddy · September 17th, 2008, 07:46 AM

As a nature and wildlife videographer and photographer, I find this to be stunning news, especially given it's relatively low price. This is essentially a high quality video camera and still camera with medium format resolution. Yes, it's video camera capabilities are limited by the fact that it is first and foremost a still camera, but you won't always need to carry both into the field, you can use Canon's fantastic lenses without having to buy a DOF converter, and 30 fps is actually a very nice frame rate for nature, landscape, and travel work. Wow.

Buy this and you can skip the Scarlet, a medium format body, and the old 5D. How much of a savings is that! If the video quality stands up to later scrutiny and reviews, this might also make a great lightweight underwater setup (I think still camera underwater housings are a bit lighter than video housings.) I won't be getting rid of my XH-A1, but what a nice complement the 5d MKII would be.

Pat

Nick Csakany · September 17th, 2008, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy Panado

On another note, the value of my 5D just dropped another few hundred bucks, lol.

I feel for you. I thought something like this might be coming, so I unloaded my 5D on ebay a couple of weeks ago.

Back to the topic, movie-enabled DSLRs are still cameras at heart and thus lack even basic video camera features, such as zebras, knee adjustment, etc. It is a promising start, however, and I look forward with excitement to what the future will bring.

Sean Seah · September 17th, 2008, 08:02 AM

the CF card recording time limitation is t he only issue. When shooting directed stuff, this is way better than investing in a DOF adpater I think. I could do stills n video with the same eqpt n yet have option of so many lens. COOL.. anybody wants a 40D??

Chris Hurd · September 17th, 2008, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen van Vuuren

Canon has been very reluctant in the true 24p world compared to Panasonic, Sony and JVC (Frame Movie Mode, 24F etc.)

Sorry, but as we have demonstrated on this site many times, 24F is indeed 24p. There's no difference and there's nothing about 24F that isn't "true" 24p. An NLE editing system can't distinguish any difference between 24F and 24p, and a human being wouldn't be able to, either. 24F is 24p.

Stephen van Vuuren · September 17th, 2008, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Sorry, but as we have demonstrated on this site many times, 24F is indeed 24p. There's no difference and there's nothing about 24F that isn't "true" 24p. An NLE editing system can't distinguish any difference between 24F and 24p, and a human being wouldn't be able to, either. 24F is 24p.

Chris, 24f is 24fps but I was referring to the technique Canon used to derive it which results in some resolution loss - thus Canon using "24f" instead of 24p as all others refer to full resolution progressive.

In other words, they appear to use interlaced CCDs as their core tech and derive progressive instead of starting native progressive sensors and moving from there.

Of course, this camera is new tech and it's surprising it's only 30p given the market, the reception to 24p on the Nikon not to mention the savings in storage that 24p would offer and/or gentler compression.

Josh Laronge · September 17th, 2008, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Seah

the CF card recording time limitation is t he only issue. When shooting directed stuff, this is way better than investing in a DOF adpater I think. I could do stills n video with the same eqpt n yet have option of so many lens. COOL.. anybody wants a 40D??

The optional WFT-E4 grip will let you shoot to hdd, lan or usb. Specs say the video is limited to 4gb it remains to be seen if this is because of the camera and/or the cards.

September 17th, 2008, 07:46 AM	#25
Pat Reddy Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 288	As a nature and wildlife videographer and photographer, I find this to be stunning news, especially given it's relatively low price. This is essentially a high quality video camera and still camera with medium format resolution. Yes, it's video camera capabilities are limited by the fact that it is first and foremost a still camera, but you won't always need to carry both into the field, you can use Canon's fantastic lenses without having to buy a DOF converter, and 30 fps is actually a very nice frame rate for nature, landscape, and travel work. Wow. Buy this and you can skip the Scarlet, a medium format body, and the old 5D. How much of a savings is that! If the video quality stands up to later scrutiny and reviews, this might also make a great lightweight underwater setup (I think still camera underwater housings are a bit lighter than video housings.) I won't be getting rid of my XH-A1, but what a nice complement the 5d MKII would be. Pat Last edited by Pat Reddy; September 17th, 2008 at 07:54 AM. Reason: addition

September 17th, 2008, 01:47 AM	#16
Jenn Kramer Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 389 Images: 1	This is a fascinating camera, and just shot to the top of my personal wishlist. I'd imagine that adding a 24p mode to it wouldn't be difficult for Canon to do, but the question becomes whether they want to. I'm sure we'll read a lot about it in the next few days. It's the first question I'd ask, at least. It looks like they added 1080p HD recording to their SX1 IS that's not going to be available in North America. Their Powershot update added h264 encoding, but still only does 640x480. It sounds like they're trying hard to protect their camcorder market. The Digic 4 chip's in all the cameras they've announced and we know that Digic 4 can do 1080p HD. Not including that feature on a camera is more market segmentation and market protection than technical limitation. I imagine we'll see 1080p trickle down through their product line as it's refreshed, assuming the competition comes out with more 1080p products at lower price points. (I'm looking at you, Sony.) In any case, this should be a pretty ground-breaking camera for those who can afford it. Being able to invest in some nice L lenses and use them for both still work and video work is really compelling. The Rebel X* series already got it's refresh and the 50d just cleared, so unless Canon decides to introduce another camera to muddle the market, I'd guess that this will be it's sole HD video SLR for at least 6 months.

September 17th, 2008, 02:52 AM	#18
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	My Golly-gosh - those should be movies and a half with a chip twice the size of the (half) frame used in the cinema! No mention of the microphones as far as I could see (there's a lot to read) but who needs video lights now, with ISO numbers that stretch into near darkness. I'm struggling to think of the difficulties it'll present when making movies. OK, the rear (live) screen is somewhat fixed and very limiting, and of course the zoom range will be somewhat curtailed unless you're very strong and very rich, but why are we movie types so happy with minute 1"/3 chips when 1080 movies can be shot onto massive square inches of chip? This EOS isn't even expensive alongside an EX1 Sony (½" CMOS chips). And I'd say 25p would be the most useful frame rate. tom.

September 17th, 2008, 04:23 AM	#20
Alkim Un Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ankara, Turkey Posts: 136	I just download the movie clips from dpreview site, and put FCP timeline with Z1E and XLH1 footage side by side. I m impressed. 5D footage is better than Z1 and par or better than H1. this my subjective evaluation though. but we are going in to interesting times ! alkım.

September 17th, 2008, 04:26 AM	#21
Randy Panado Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 643	Simply amazing. Canon never seems to stop surprising. I remember all the clamor about a supposed 5D MkII. Who would have ever guessed a year ago that it was going to be a video camera also.... On another note, the value of my 5D just dropped another few hundred bucks, lol.

September 17th, 2008, 05:04 AM	#22
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	Not sure if ths is correct as i can't find a manual for the software but does anyone know if Red Giant " Frames " would convert the 30 frames to 24P ??? I could be wrong but I think it might....?...

September 17th, 2008, 08:02 AM	#27
Sean Seah Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,498	the CF card recording time limitation is t he only issue. When shooting directed stuff, this is way better than investing in a DOF adpater I think. I could do stills n video with the same eqpt n yet have option of so many lens. COOL.. anybody wants a 40D??