Max ISO setting 60d/7d at DVinfo.net

Stefan Gill · December 14th, 2012, 10:02 AM

Up until recently I have filmed wedding receptions with the traditional A1s and on-camera light. I see the tremendous potential of the canon 60d, 7d and 5dII.

As I continue to experiment with the 60d during wedding receptions, I feel other videographers are getting better results in low light. I would prefer not walk around with a light on the camera for obvious reasons.

However, my footage is dark, and when the ISO is bumped too high (on the 60d and 7d) the footage is grainy, and I need Neat Video to reduce but also this slightly blurs or smooths over the image too much

For your 60d or 7d, what is the max ISO you will use?

Light or no light for dancing shots (I always use a light for toasts, speeches, ect..)

Shutter below 48?

The F-stop results in too shallow a depth-of-field when below 2.8, where is your f-stop generally at for these types of dancing shots?

Attaching screen grabs of the 60d with canon 50mm, Sigma 30mm and Sigma 10-20mm. Shutter at 30, ISO at 6400 with varying F-stops. They are very dark, even with the shutter at 30!

Will upgrading to 5DII be my solution to walking around without a light? It looks excellent in low-light.

Justin Molush · December 14th, 2012, 05:12 PM

I will max out my 7D @ 2500. Any higher and the noise starts taking over significantly. Yes, you can massage it cleaner in post, but DSLR footage is soft as it is and denoising takes it further (pushing it further with a USM over top of that stresses the codec even more unfortunately).

The need for more light after that forces me to take off the zoom and put on my 24/1.8. Your screen grabs are what I usually try to avoid as the image turns a bit muddy and loses sharpness rather rapidly.

Now if you have no other option but to crank the iso as you "must get the shot".... then well... you gotta get the shot and expose for it accordingly.

John Carroll · December 18th, 2012, 09:05 AM

Great low light performance is one of the main reasons I upgraded to the 5DM3 from the 60D. You can rent these cameras pretty cheaply, I would recommend trying one out if you are considering a purchase... you will be amazed at the difference in high ISO performance!

Murray Christian · December 18th, 2012, 09:17 AM

People say shutter speeds below 48/50 are some sort of cardinal sin, but I've shot hip hop dancers at 25 and found it fine. But people say I'm overly forgiving of motion blur.
Still, the way it was described you'd think it was as streaky as frame mode in older canon video cameras and it's nothing like that bad.

I almost never get above ISO 1250, but I find the depth at f2 generally fine. You can't get rid of smear once the codec gets a hold of a lot of noise, so you gotta get more light in there. That's what I say.

Stefan Gill · December 20th, 2012, 03:27 PM

Thanks, what is your thoughts on mounting a light (ikan iLED 144 On-Camera Bi-Color LED Light) on the camera.

I am considering the 5dM2 (m3 is out of price range) and the canon 35mm f1.4 lens for dancing and low light at receptions. Yesterday I borrowed 5d2 and did a side by side comparison (to the 60d) that I will edit and post for you shortly. The 5dm2 is crisper on higher iso, even the grain is different, it is not colored grain which the 60d has.

So, who is using a light on their SLRs (or is that taboo)? If so, which light?

This light:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/753019-REG/Ikan_ILED144_iLED_144_On_Camera_Bi_Color.html

Stefan Gill · December 20th, 2012, 03:51 PM

Here's some comparison shots. The 60d was using a Sigma 30mm f1.4 while the 5dM2 was using a 35mm Canon 1.4. (Sorry for the comparison with different glass but was on limited time to switch lens'.)

Conclusion: The 5DM2 is a better low light camera and you can push the ISO higher with less grain.

John Carroll · December 20th, 2012, 04:22 PM

There's no doubt that the 5D will do better in low light. The still frames won't do the test justice since the grain will "dance" in the video and be more pronounced. The 5DM3 (I know you don't won't to drop the $$) has a much more pleasing grain if you can imagine that. It's more like the look of high speed film (kindof) and the 60D noise is really just noise and not very nice to look at.

Good luck!

Stefan Gill · December 21st, 2012, 11:16 AM

Very true, I'm just wondering if I should upgrade to the 5D2 for the low light benefits, or add a quality light to the top of my 7D and 60D cameras.

Video comparison, here it is: A Side-by-Side comparison on the 60D vs 5DII we shot yesterday.

Lens: Sigma 30mm (yes crop lens but we cropped out vignetting in video)
Shutter: 50
F: 2.8
Canon 60D vs Canon 5DII low light comparison

Thoughts, comments & replies... open to all !

Charles Newcomb · December 23rd, 2012, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan Gill

Very true, I'm just wondering if I should upgrade to the 5D2 for the low light benefits, or add a quality light to the top of my 7D and 60D cameras.

Video comparison, here it is: A Side-by-Side comparison on the 60D vs 5DII we shot yesterday.

Lens: Sigma 30mm (yes crop lens but we cropped out vignetting in video)
Shutter: 50
F: 2.8
Canon 60D vs Canon 5DII low light comparison

5d2vs60d on Vimeo

Thoughts, comments & replies... open to all !

It made me dizzy.

Stefan Gill · January 9th, 2013, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Newcomb

It made me dizzy.

Try Dramamine for that.

Brian David Melnyk · January 10th, 2013, 04:30 AM

couldn't help myself but to do some quick CC, as poor as it may be!

more on topic, i don't like going higher than 800 ISO on my T3i, which i think is the same video image as the 60D, although in the real world this doesn't always work out...
5DMII goes to 11...

Kren Barnes · January 10th, 2013, 05:46 PM

We use 60Ds and nothing over 800 iso for us..unless it was a real emergency situation, we would go to 1250..Our third shooter has a MarkII and he can go up to 1800 iso without any noise issues...

Kren

Franklin Bencosme · January 16th, 2013, 03:35 PM

Helllo folks,we use during night time weddings on the 60d a 1250 iso and never had a problem,in Emergency we go to 1600,after that if you go up,you will be in problems :)

Nigel Barker · January 19th, 2013, 10:10 AM

I used a 600D for a while & would never dare go above ISO800 & all the crop sensor Canons are the same. In emergencies to gain an extra stop of light I would drop the shutter to 1/30 as a bit of extra motion blur is far more acceptable (in a wedding video at least) rather then either underexposed or noisy images. With a 5D2 I will happily shot at ISO3200 provided the image is well exposed. If you underexpose & hope to push exposure in post it will look like crap. As Bryan says the 5D3 goes up to 11 as there is no real limit as the heavy-duty in camera noise reduction means that the image is never noisy whatever the ISO although the image does get soft as you crank it up.

Murray Christian · January 19th, 2013, 02:10 PM

From memory testing showed 1250ISO has about the same amount of noise as 800. 1000 actually has more than 1250.
This is all to do with that 'native ISO' stuff which I don't really understand (possibly because I haven't read anything about it, but anyway...)

December 14th, 2012, 10:02 AM	#1
Stefan Gill Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Levittown, New York Posts: 91	Max ISO setting 60d/7d Up until recently I have filmed wedding receptions with the traditional A1s and on-camera light. I see the tremendous potential of the canon 60d, 7d and 5dII. As I continue to experiment with the 60d during wedding receptions, I feel other videographers are getting better results in low light. I would prefer not walk around with a light on the camera for obvious reasons. However, my footage is dark, and when the ISO is bumped too high (on the 60d and 7d) the footage is grainy, and I need Neat Video to reduce but also this slightly blurs or smooths over the image too much For your 60d or 7d, what is the max ISO you will use? Light or no light for dancing shots (I always use a light for toasts, speeches, ect..) Shutter below 48? The F-stop results in too shallow a depth-of-field when below 2.8, where is your f-stop generally at for these types of dancing shots? Attaching screen grabs of the 60d with canon 50mm, Sigma 30mm and Sigma 10-20mm. Shutter at 30, ISO at 6400 with varying F-stops. They are very dark, even with the shutter at 30! Will upgrading to 5DII be my solution to walking around without a light? It looks excellent in low-light. Attached Thumbnails

December 14th, 2012, 05:12 PM	#2
Justin Molush Major Player Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Montreal Posts: 388	Re: Max ISO setting 60d/7d I will max out my 7D @ 2500. Any higher and the noise starts taking over significantly. Yes, you can massage it cleaner in post, but DSLR footage is soft as it is and denoising takes it further (pushing it further with a USM over top of that stresses the codec even more unfortunately). The need for more light after that forces me to take off the zoom and put on my 24/1.8. Your screen grabs are what I usually try to avoid as the image turns a bit muddy and loses sharpness rather rapidly. Now if you have no other option but to crank the iso as you "must get the shot".... then well... you gotta get the shot and expose for it accordingly. __________________ Automotive Multimedia

December 18th, 2012, 09:05 AM	#3
John Carroll Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 156	Re: Max ISO setting 60d/7d Great low light performance is one of the main reasons I upgraded to the 5DM3 from the 60D. You can rent these cameras pretty cheaply, I would recommend trying one out if you are considering a purchase... you will be amazed at the difference in high ISO performance!

December 18th, 2012, 09:17 AM	#4
Murray Christian Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 240	Re: Max ISO setting 60d/7d People say shutter speeds below 48/50 are some sort of cardinal sin, but I've shot hip hop dancers at 25 and found it fine. But people say I'm overly forgiving of motion blur. Still, the way it was described you'd think it was as streaky as frame mode in older canon video cameras and it's nothing like that bad. I almost never get above ISO 1250, but I find the depth at f2 generally fine. You can't get rid of smear once the codec gets a hold of a lot of noise, so you gotta get more light in there. That's what I say.

December 20th, 2012, 03:27 PM	#5
Stefan Gill Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Levittown, New York Posts: 91	Re: Max ISO setting 60d/7d Thanks, what is your thoughts on mounting a light (ikan iLED 144 On-Camera Bi-Color LED Light) on the camera. I am considering the 5dM2 (m3 is out of price range) and the canon 35mm f1.4 lens for dancing and low light at receptions. Yesterday I borrowed 5d2 and did a side by side comparison (to the 60d) that I will edit and post for you shortly. The 5dm2 is crisper on higher iso, even the grain is different, it is not colored grain which the 60d has. So, who is using a light on their SLRs (or is that taboo)? If so, which light? This light: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/753019-REG/Ikan_ILED144_iLED_144_On_Camera_Bi_Color.html

December 20th, 2012, 03:51 PM	#6
Stefan Gill Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Levittown, New York Posts: 91	Re: Max ISO setting 60d/7d Here's some comparison shots. The 60d was using a Sigma 30mm f1.4 while the 5dM2 was using a 35mm Canon 1.4. (Sorry for the comparison with different glass but was on limited time to switch lens'.) Conclusion: The 5DM2 is a better low light camera and you can push the ISO higher with less grain. Attached Thumbnails

December 20th, 2012, 04:22 PM	#7
John Carroll Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 156	Re: Max ISO setting 60d/7d There's no doubt that the 5D will do better in low light. The still frames won't do the test justice since the grain will "dance" in the video and be more pronounced. The 5DM3 (I know you don't won't to drop the $$) has a much more pleasing grain if you can imagine that. It's more like the look of high speed film (kindof) and the 60D noise is really just noise and not very nice to look at. Good luck!

December 21st, 2012, 11:16 AM	#8
Stefan Gill Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Levittown, New York Posts: 91	Re: Max ISO setting 60d/7d Very true, I'm just wondering if I should upgrade to the 5D2 for the low light benefits, or add a quality light to the top of my 7D and 60D cameras. Video comparison, here it is: A Side-by-Side comparison on the 60D vs 5DII we shot yesterday. Lens: Sigma 30mm (yes crop lens but we cropped out vignetting in video) Shutter: 50 F: 2.8 Canon 60D vs Canon 5DII low light comparison 5d2vs60d on Vimeo Thoughts, comments & replies... open to all !

January 10th, 2013, 04:30 AM	#11
Brian David Melnyk Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Winnipeg Canada Posts: 532	Re: Max ISO setting 60d/7d couldn't help myself but to do some quick CC, as poor as it may be! more on topic, i don't like going higher than 800 ISO on my T3i, which i think is the same video image as the 60D, although in the real world this doesn't always work out... 5DMII goes to 11... Attached Thumbnails

January 10th, 2013, 05:46 PM	#12
Kren Barnes Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Canada Posts: 415	Re: Max ISO setting 60d/7d We use 60Ds and nothing over 800 iso for us..unless it was a real emergency situation, we would go to 1250..Our third shooter has a MarkII and he can go up to 1800 iso without any noise issues... Kren __________________ Modern Wedding Cinema for the Modern Bride www.verticalvideoworks.ca

January 16th, 2013, 03:35 PM	#13
Franklin Bencosme Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dominican Republic Posts: 135	Re: Max ISO setting 60d/7d Helllo folks,we use during night time weddings on the 60d a 1250 iso and never had a problem,in Emergency we go to 1600,after that if you go up,you will be in problems :)

January 19th, 2013, 10:10 AM	#14
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	Re: Max ISO setting 60d/7d I used a 600D for a while & would never dare go above ISO800 & all the crop sensor Canons are the same. In emergencies to gain an extra stop of light I would drop the shutter to 1/30 as a bit of extra motion blur is far more acceptable (in a wedding video at least) rather then either underexposed or noisy images. With a 5D2 I will happily shot at ISO3200 provided the image is well exposed. If you underexpose & hope to push exposure in post it will look like crap. As Bryan says the 5D3 goes up to 11 as there is no real limit as the heavy-duty in camera noise reduction means that the image is never noisy whatever the ISO although the image does get soft as you crank it up.

January 19th, 2013, 02:10 PM	#15
Murray Christian Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 240	Re: Max ISO setting 60d/7d From memory testing showed 1250ISO has about the same amount of noise as 800. 1000 actually has more than 1250. This is all to do with that 'native ISO' stuff which I don't really understand (possibly because I haven't read anything about it, but anyway...)