EOS M thread

Jon Fairhurst · July 15th, 2013, 10:27 PM

I got the camera today. :)

It's an odd mix of point and shoot and DSLR. The out-of-the-box configuration is very point and shoot. You have do dig around to get it to act manually, but it can be done. One thing you'll want to do is turn off the "Feature Guide", which brings help windows up every time you touch an adjustment.

The autofocus works but is much, much slower than a DSLR. But that's okay. We get a smaller size and a lower price for giving up the mirror. The main thing is that the AF does work and seems to be accurate. In the end, if you get the photo, the audience doesn't care that you waited another second or so before clicking.

To use manual focus with the 22mm lens, you need to set it to manual in the menus, which is easy enough but should be available in the large info screen. Manual focus seems to be fly-by-wire, so it feels lost. The throw is surprisingly long, but I don't know that it has a consistent velocity. With an adapter and normal 35mm lens, it will feel just like any other camera and manual focus lens.

One bummer is that you only get x5 and x10 preview in video mode, but you can't shoot photos in video mode (as far as I know.) I have often used the x10 feature with manual focus to get critical focus on the 5D in dark conditions, rather than hoping that AF will nail the eyes.

AF actually works in video mode, but it's really lazy. You wouldn't want to use AF on a narrative film but it would probably be just fine in a behind-the-scenes or other casual piece. The autofocus might be slow and might even go the wrong way at first, but it eventually delivers a sharp picture.

One advantage with the touchscreen is that you can preview photos by flipping through them and zooming with two fingers. Very nice. And that reveals the beauty of the camera. The photos aren't like a point and shoot at all. Based on the results, the end product is pure DSLR.

Alex Anderson · July 15th, 2013, 10:43 PM

Jon, have you tried ML on the M yet?

Alex

Jon Fairhurst · July 16th, 2013, 01:34 AM

Not yet. Tonight we did some greenscreen tests with the 5D2 shooting ML RAW. The results were stunning. :)

Rob Katz · July 16th, 2013, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Anderson

Jon, have you tried ML on the M yet?

Alex

i did not know that magic lantern was available for the eos-m.

hopeful/expected benefits?

be well.

rob
smalltalk productions
nyc

Jon Fairhurst · July 16th, 2013, 08:30 AM

Not having applied ML to the EOS-M, I'm not sure exactly which features apply.

Possible benefits include nice exposure tools, superior audio control, audio monitoring (live, visual), and a variety of minor features that could be important for specific applications. RAW capture delivers amazing quality on the 5D, but that camera can use blazing fast CF cards. SD cards aren't quite as fast, so it's hard to say if and when continuous shooting will be available on the EOS-M.

There are downsides. Navigation of menus (on the 5D2) is often clunky and can be inconsistent. Sometimes I want it and sometimes I want to avoid it, so I need enough cards to have some that are clean and some with ML installed. (Now that I have a 128GB super fast KomputerBay CF card, I can keep ML on that and keep my other cards clean.) The main downside is that you need to remove the battery temporarily after each session to ensure that there's no rogue process draining the battery.

Frankly, I don't plan to use ML on the M at this time. When it can do RAW, I'll buy a fast card for that and mount ML for that card only. The M seems to be a real battery hog, probably mostly for powering the LCD display from such a small battery, so I'll avoid any extra drain from ML.

Of course, if there's a killer feature for your application that you can only get with ML, go for it! (Just remember to pull the battery temporarily after each session.)

Al Bergstein · July 16th, 2013, 11:17 PM

Jon, did your camera have the new firmware installed? Mine is very quick to AF, but does not match my 5dmkiii, which i would expect.

Mark Rosenzweig · July 17th, 2013, 07:36 AM

Uses the 18-55mm kit lens and new firmware. The focus is fast and accurate, goes where one points and does not bounce or hunt. Dim light at dusk so high ISO; 'standard' picture style.

Jon Fairhurst · July 17th, 2013, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Bergstein

Jon, did your camera have the new firmware installed? Mine is very quick to AF, but does not match my 5dmkiii, which i would expect.

Yep, new firmware.

I'm not complaining. It works well for what it is. Compared to a P&S, it's good. Compared to an SLR, it's slow. It is as I would expect. (My tests were indoors during the early evening, so the light was moderately low.)

Al Bergstein · July 17th, 2013, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Rosenzweig

Uses the 18-55mm kit lens and new firmware. The focus is fast and accurate, goes where one points and does not bounce or hunt. Dim light at dusk so high ISO; 'standard' picture style.

Canon EOS-M test Video: Touch-Screen Focus Pulls at Dusk in the Garden on Vimeo

Looks pretty good to me.

Charles W. Hull · July 19th, 2013, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Rosenzweig

Uses the 18-55mm kit lens and new firmware. The focus is fast and accurate, goes where one points and does not bounce or hunt. Dim light at dusk so high ISO; 'standard' picture style.

That really looks good Mark!

I can't get smooth focusing video like that (with 2.0.2 firmware). I have the 22mm kit lens. It tracks but often hunts before locking focus. I wondered if the lens is the difference; I don't have the 18-55mm kit lens, so I tried several other Canon mount lens; with the following results:

EF 17-40mm f/4. This focus tracks very smoothly at 17mm. It is pretty good all the way up to 40mm, a little better than the 22mm kit lens.

EF 24-105mm f/4. Hunts at 24mm before focusing. Tends to lock up to full close focus at 104mm.

Sigma 50mm f/1.4. Hunts badly, and tends to lock up to full close focus.

EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8. Tracks but hunts before locking focus. Has the added problem that focal length changes slightly with focus, so any hunting is exaggerated.

It seems that the lens matters. Don't think I'll buy the 18-55mm kit lens to verify this is the difference with your results, but that could be it.

All these lenses focus okay with the M for still photography, and pretty quickly with 2.0.2.

As an aside, looking again at that EOS 70D video demo - that was shot with a variety of lenses, and each focused very smoothly.

Jon Fairhurst · July 19th, 2013, 11:19 PM

I received the electronic adapter today. The thing is pure quality. Very nice.

I tried some low light stills with the 100/2.8L IS Macro. What a crack up! The red focus assist light goes on - and lights up the side of the lens. :) I got some good shots with manual focus and zoom.

When there was a bit more light, I used the 16-35/2.8L II with good results, but frankly, that little 22mm pancake did just as well at f/2.8. By the time I zoomed in enough to see the difference in sharpness, the noise at 400 - 500 ISO was the bigger factor.

Back with the 22/2.0, I showed my wife how to turn it on, put it in auto mode and auto touch to focus and shoot. She absolutely loved it. I might not get it back. :)

Mark Rosenzweig · July 20th, 2013, 09:46 AM

Here is a test video in a really dim place:

Select 1080p (original was 108030p). Used the 22mm f2.0 lens mostly.

Alex Anderson · July 21st, 2013, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

I received the electronic adapter today. The thing is pure quality. Very nice.

I tried some low light stills with the 100/2.8L IS Macro. What a crack up! The red focus assist light goes on - and lights up the side of the lens. :) I got some good shots with manual focus and zoom.

When there was a bit more light, I used the 16-35/2.8L II with good results, but frankly, that little 22mm pancake did just as well at f/2.8. By the time I zoomed in enough to see the difference in sharpness, the noise at 400 - 500 ISO was the bigger factor.

Back with the 22/2.0, I showed my wife how to turn it on, put it in auto mode and auto touch to focus and shoot. She absolutely loved it. I might not get it back. :)

Jon,
I ordered the same lens adapter from Fotodiox you mentioned and when I mounted an EF lens, it felt loose and I could wiggle the lens a bit. I did mount it all correctly. It was not tight and snug like you mentioned. Not sure If I go a bad one. I hope they reply tomorrow about this issue.

Alex

Al Gardner · July 21st, 2013, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donald McPherson

Those smart guys at Magic Lantern have already cracked it. And are working hard to incorporate ML to improve the M.

They are smart and we should keep their tip jar full.

Rob Katz · July 24th, 2013, 01:02 PM

i worked this afternoon on using the eos-m in movie mode.

the end result is decent.

getting there felt very hit or miss.

i am disappointed in the audio controls.

the pre-amp and mic combo is typical consumer camcorder. nothing special on either count.

i ran a at875r short shotgun mic, mounted atop of the camera into a mix-pre and then sent the mic signal thru the mix-pre and into the eos-m's 3.5mm side port.

in the menu i had gone to the movie tool folder and switched the audio from automatic to manual.

i set levels on the mix-pre and attempted to calibrate the input record level on the eos-m. my mix-pre level even at it's lowest was going in mid-to high on the eos-m. i had to turn the eos-m record level to 1/4 as to not have the level peak into the red.

i did a quick talking head with my oldest daughter.

unfortunately, there is no live audio metering during movie mode. canon has live audio metering on its most basic camcorders. they should have included that functionality along with a headphone jack.

as for the footage-color fidelity, focus, skin tone, all were very nice.

and the audio levels from the mix-pre were spot on.

i brought the sd card into my imac. the files are easy to ingest .mov/h264 files. the movies can be perfect b-roll for other canon dslr footage or even web distributed media.

i just wish the darn audio was managed better.

more tests to come.

ymmv.

be well.

rob
smalltalk productions
nyc

July 15th, 2013, 10:27 PM	#31
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: EOS M thread I got the camera today. :) It's an odd mix of point and shoot and DSLR. The out-of-the-box configuration is very point and shoot. You have do dig around to get it to act manually, but it can be done. One thing you'll want to do is turn off the "Feature Guide", which brings help windows up every time you touch an adjustment. The autofocus works but is much, much slower than a DSLR. But that's okay. We get a smaller size and a lower price for giving up the mirror. The main thing is that the AF does work and seems to be accurate. In the end, if you get the photo, the audience doesn't care that you waited another second or so before clicking. To use manual focus with the 22mm lens, you need to set it to manual in the menus, which is easy enough but should be available in the large info screen. Manual focus seems to be fly-by-wire, so it feels lost. The throw is surprisingly long, but I don't know that it has a consistent velocity. With an adapter and normal 35mm lens, it will feel just like any other camera and manual focus lens. One bummer is that you only get x5 and x10 preview in video mode, but you can't shoot photos in video mode (as far as I know.) I have often used the x10 feature with manual focus to get critical focus on the 5D in dark conditions, rather than hoping that AF will nail the eyes. AF actually works in video mode, but it's really lazy. You wouldn't want to use AF on a narrative film but it would probably be just fine in a behind-the-scenes or other casual piece. The autofocus might be slow and might even go the wrong way at first, but it eventually delivers a sharp picture. One advantage with the touchscreen is that you can preview photos by flipping through them and zooming with two fingers. Very nice. And that reveals the beauty of the camera. The photos aren't like a point and shoot at all. Based on the results, the end product is pure DSLR. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

July 15th, 2013, 10:43 PM	#32
Alex Anderson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 261	Re: EOS M thread Jon, have you tried ML on the M yet? Alex Last edited by Alex Anderson; July 15th, 2013 at 11:52 PM.

July 16th, 2013, 01:34 AM	#33
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: EOS M thread Not yet. Tonight we did some greenscreen tests with the 5D2 shooting ML RAW. The results were stunning. :) __________________ Jon Fairhurst

July 16th, 2013, 08:30 AM	#35
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: EOS M thread Not having applied ML to the EOS-M, I'm not sure exactly which features apply. Possible benefits include nice exposure tools, superior audio control, audio monitoring (live, visual), and a variety of minor features that could be important for specific applications. RAW capture delivers amazing quality on the 5D, but that camera can use blazing fast CF cards. SD cards aren't quite as fast, so it's hard to say if and when continuous shooting will be available on the EOS-M. There are downsides. Navigation of menus (on the 5D2) is often clunky and can be inconsistent. Sometimes I want it and sometimes I want to avoid it, so I need enough cards to have some that are clean and some with ML installed. (Now that I have a 128GB super fast KomputerBay CF card, I can keep ML on that and keep my other cards clean.) The main downside is that you need to remove the battery temporarily after each session to ensure that there's no rogue process draining the battery. Frankly, I don't plan to use ML on the M at this time. When it can do RAW, I'll buy a fast card for that and mount ML for that card only. The M seems to be a real battery hog, probably mostly for powering the LCD display from such a small battery, so I'll avoid any extra drain from ML. Of course, if there's a killer feature for your application that you can only get with ML, go for it! (Just remember to pull the battery temporarily after each session.) __________________ Jon Fairhurst

July 16th, 2013, 11:17 PM	#36
Al Bergstein Major Player Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Port Townsend, WA Posts: 456	Re: EOS M thread Jon, did your camera have the new firmware installed? Mine is very quick to AF, but does not match my 5dmkiii, which i would expect.

July 17th, 2013, 07:36 AM	#37
Mark Rosenzweig Trustee Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: New Haven, CT Posts: 1,004	EOS-M Touch-Screen Focus Pulls Uses the 18-55mm kit lens and new firmware. The focus is fast and accurate, goes where one points and does not bounce or hunt. Dim light at dusk so high ISO; 'standard' picture style. Canon EOS-M test Video: Touch-Screen Focus Pulls at Dusk in the Garden on Vimeo

July 19th, 2013, 11:19 PM	#41
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: EOS M thread I received the electronic adapter today. The thing is pure quality. Very nice. I tried some low light stills with the 100/2.8L IS Macro. What a crack up! The red focus assist light goes on - and lights up the side of the lens. :) I got some good shots with manual focus and zoom. When there was a bit more light, I used the 16-35/2.8L II with good results, but frankly, that little 22mm pancake did just as well at f/2.8. By the time I zoomed in enough to see the difference in sharpness, the noise at 400 - 500 ISO was the bigger factor. Back with the 22/2.0, I showed my wife how to turn it on, put it in auto mode and auto touch to focus and shoot. She absolutely loved it. I might not get it back. :) __________________ Jon Fairhurst

July 20th, 2013, 09:46 AM	#42
Mark Rosenzweig Trustee Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: New Haven, CT Posts: 1,004	Re: EOS M thread Here is a test video in a really dim place: Canon EOS-M Test Video: Visit to a Dinosaur Museum - YouTube Select 1080p (original was 108030p). Used the 22mm f2.0 lens mostly.

July 24th, 2013, 01:02 PM	#45
Rob Katz Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: new york city, new york Posts: 594	Re: EOS M thread/audio in movie mode i worked this afternoon on using the eos-m in movie mode. the end result is decent. getting there felt very hit or miss. i am disappointed in the audio controls. the pre-amp and mic combo is typical consumer camcorder. nothing special on either count. i ran a at875r short shotgun mic, mounted atop of the camera into a mix-pre and then sent the mic signal thru the mix-pre and into the eos-m's 3.5mm side port. in the menu i had gone to the movie tool folder and switched the audio from automatic to manual. i set levels on the mix-pre and attempted to calibrate the input record level on the eos-m. my mix-pre level even at it's lowest was going in mid-to high on the eos-m. i had to turn the eos-m record level to 1/4 as to not have the level peak into the red. i did a quick talking head with my oldest daughter. unfortunately, there is no live audio metering during movie mode. canon has live audio metering on its most basic camcorders. they should have included that functionality along with a headphone jack. as for the footage-color fidelity, focus, skin tone, all were very nice. and the audio levels from the mix-pre were spot on. i brought the sd card into my imac. the files are easy to ingest .mov/h264 files. the movies can be perfect b-roll for other canon dslr footage or even web distributed media. i just wish the darn audio was managed better. more tests to come. ymmv. be well. rob smalltalk productions nyc