Frame Rate at DVinfo.net

Tariq Peter · September 23rd, 2011, 10:12 AM

Hi,

When I set my 600D to PAL the highest frame rate it offers is 25P my XHA1 offers 25f which I will also be using on shoots. The 600D also offers 60p but that's only in NTSC mode. If I shoot in 60p my footage will undoubtedly be a lot smoother however mixing the two formats will mean that I would need to convert the 60p footage to PAL and that could take hours. Has anybody had a similar setup and what solutions are available to me? I really want the 60p as I can slow the footage right down whilst still maintaining the quality.

Nigel Barker · September 23rd, 2011, 11:16 AM

It must be pilot error. The 600D does shoot 50fps but only at 1280x720. When you set Video System to PAL you get 1920x1080 @25fps 1920x1080@24fps 1280x720@50fps & 640x480 @25fps. Set it to NTSC & get 1920x1080 @30fps 1920x1080@24fps 1280x720@60fps & 640x480 @30fps.

Tariq Peter · September 23rd, 2011, 03:06 PM

Yes my mistake I was concentrating on the left hand side of the video setup. Can the 600D ever go up to 50fps at a higher resolution using an update as 1920 is ideally what I would like to record at to get the best out of my camera. If that is not an option how would one work with both 50p footage and 25p footage within fcp what would the sequence setup be? I am still waiting for my memory card to arrive and anxious to know.

Nigel Barker · September 24th, 2011, 02:10 AM

None of the other Canon DSLRs can record at 1920x1080 @50/60fps so I doubt that any firmware update will enable it on the 600D.

Often one either shoots all 50p or conforms 50p to 25p for slow motion. Otherwise if the majority of your footage is 25p then set your sequence to that & just drop the 50p clips onto the timeline & let FCP sort it out.

Tariq Peter · September 24th, 2011, 06:58 AM

I think ill shoot 50fps for certain shots which I want to slow down in post but in the whole Ill work ok 25p on both the XHA1 and the 600D.

Ger Griffin · September 24th, 2011, 07:44 AM

Depending what you are shooting, you may want to shoot 50p all the time to give you the option of slowmo in post whenever. Always works very well on any kind of shots with movement in them.
3x mode wont work on t3i in 720p 50

Tariq Peter · September 25th, 2011, 03:35 AM

I was hoping that 3x would work in 50p mode oh well maybe a firmware update.a

Bruce Foreman · September 27th, 2011, 11:25 AM

Tariq,

What do you find problematic about working in 1920x1080 25p? Shutter speed of 1/50th will give you essentially the same "cinematic" motion blur as early film cameras got with 1/48th.

Tariq Peter · September 27th, 2011, 06:47 PM

Hi,

Creating slow motion footage with 25p does not look as good as the slow motion shots shot at 50p

Murray Christian · September 28th, 2011, 12:10 AM

I think you should check out the price, light requirements and so on of proper high speed cameras. It offers some indication of why it's hard for your sub-$1000 camera to manage.

James Donnelly · September 28th, 2011, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tariq Peter

I was hoping that 3x would work in 50p mode oh well maybe a firmware update.a

There are many reasons why this is unlikely ever to happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tariq Peter

Hi,

Creating slow motion footage with 25p does not look as good as the slow motion shots shot at 50p

Have you tried Twixtor? Works well in certain situations.

Tariq Peter · October 6th, 2011, 07:59 AM

Hi Guys,

I recorded some footage at 50p the audio seems fine but everybody in the video seems to be moving way too fast. it's hard to explain but trying to slow it down and speed it up in after effects means I have to render the footage each time. Is there something I am missing?

Bernard Lau · October 6th, 2011, 08:07 AM

You can use Apple cinema tools to conform the 50p to whatever speed you want. Remember to duplicate the original file as conforming in Cinema Tools would affect the original footage.

You should also shoot at least 100 shutter speed. But the faster the shutter, the better the slow mo should be. I read somewhere that 1000 is a good number... But a lot of this is trial and error... I wish I had time to trial and error myself.

Oh, and isn't there rumors that the 5D mk3 will have full hd 60p... Very tempting.

Tariq Peter · October 6th, 2011, 09:26 AM

I did not know that adjusting the frame rate or shutter speed would increase the speed of the video I just thought the video would be much higher quality at 50fps enabling me to do some really cool slow motion effects if I ever needed to. If I film at 1280 x 720 (50fps) with the shutter speed set to 100 would the video not look like its playing at double speed? This is my video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32v5RHCQgmI

James Donnelly · October 6th, 2011, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tariq Peter

I did not know that adjusting the frame rate or shutter speed would increase the speed of the video I just thought the video would be much higher quality at 50fps enabling me to do some really cool slow motion effects if I ever needed to. If I film at 1280 x 720 (50fps) with the shutter speed set to 100 would the video not look like its playing at double speed? This is my video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32v5RHCQgmI

"This video is private.
Sorry about that."

September 23rd, 2011, 10:12 AM	#1
Tariq Peter Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Manchester England Posts: 435	Frame Rate Hi, When I set my 600D to PAL the highest frame rate it offers is 25P my XHA1 offers 25f which I will also be using on shoots. The 600D also offers 60p but that's only in NTSC mode. If I shoot in 60p my footage will undoubtedly be a lot smoother however mixing the two formats will mean that I would need to convert the 60p footage to PAL and that could take hours. Has anybody had a similar setup and what solutions are available to me? I really want the 60p as I can slow the footage right down whilst still maintaining the quality. Last edited by Tariq Peter; September 23rd, 2011 at 10:41 AM. Reason: XHA1 can not change from PAL to NTSC

September 23rd, 2011, 11:16 AM	#2
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	Re: Frame Rate It must be pilot error. The 600D does shoot 50fps but only at 1280x720. When you set Video System to PAL you get 1920x1080 @25fps 1920x1080@24fps 1280x720@50fps & 640x480 @25fps. Set it to NTSC & get 1920x1080 @30fps 1920x1080@24fps 1280x720@60fps & 640x480 @30fps.

September 23rd, 2011, 03:06 PM	#3
Tariq Peter Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Manchester England Posts: 435	Re: Frame Rate Yes my mistake I was concentrating on the left hand side of the video setup. Can the 600D ever go up to 50fps at a higher resolution using an update as 1920 is ideally what I would like to record at to get the best out of my camera. If that is not an option how would one work with both 50p footage and 25p footage within fcp what would the sequence setup be? I am still waiting for my memory card to arrive and anxious to know.

September 24th, 2011, 02:10 AM	#4
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	Re: Frame Rate None of the other Canon DSLRs can record at 1920x1080 @50/60fps so I doubt that any firmware update will enable it on the 600D. Often one either shoots all 50p or conforms 50p to 25p for slow motion. Otherwise if the majority of your footage is 25p then set your sequence to that & just drop the 50p clips onto the timeline & let FCP sort it out.

September 24th, 2011, 06:58 AM	#5
Tariq Peter Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Manchester England Posts: 435	Re: Frame Rate I think ill shoot 50fps for certain shots which I want to slow down in post but in the whole Ill work ok 25p on both the XHA1 and the 600D.

September 24th, 2011, 07:44 AM	#6
Ger Griffin Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 579	Re: Frame Rate Depending what you are shooting, you may want to shoot 50p all the time to give you the option of slowmo in post whenever. Always works very well on any kind of shots with movement in them. 3x mode wont work on t3i in 720p 50

September 25th, 2011, 03:35 AM	#7
Tariq Peter Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Manchester England Posts: 435	Re: Frame Rate I was hoping that 3x would work in 50p mode oh well maybe a firmware update.a

September 27th, 2011, 11:25 AM	#8
Bruce Foreman Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: San Angelo Texas Posts: 1,518	Re: Frame Rate Tariq, What do you find problematic about working in 1920x1080 25p? Shutter speed of 1/50th will give you essentially the same "cinematic" motion blur as early film cameras got with 1/48th.

September 27th, 2011, 06:47 PM	#9
Tariq Peter Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Manchester England Posts: 435	Re: Frame Rate Hi, Creating slow motion footage with 25p does not look as good as the slow motion shots shot at 50p

September 28th, 2011, 12:10 AM	#10
Murray Christian Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 240	Re: Frame Rate I think you should check out the price, light requirements and so on of proper high speed cameras. It offers some indication of why it's hard for your sub-$1000 camera to manage.

October 6th, 2011, 07:59 AM	#12
Tariq Peter Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Manchester England Posts: 435	Re: Frame Rate Hi Guys, I recorded some footage at 50p the audio seems fine but everybody in the video seems to be moving way too fast. it's hard to explain but trying to slow it down and speed it up in after effects means I have to render the footage each time. Is there something I am missing?

October 6th, 2011, 08:07 AM	#13
Bernard Lau Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 56	Re: Frame Rate You can use Apple cinema tools to conform the 50p to whatever speed you want. Remember to duplicate the original file as conforming in Cinema Tools would affect the original footage. You should also shoot at least 100 shutter speed. But the faster the shutter, the better the slow mo should be. I read somewhere that 1000 is a good number... But a lot of this is trial and error... I wish I had time to trial and error myself. Oh, and isn't there rumors that the 5D mk3 will have full hd 60p... Very tempting. __________________ Facebook & Twitter me with "bernardlaufilms" www.bernardlau.com.au \| www.weddingvideosydney.org.au

October 6th, 2011, 09:26 AM	#14
Tariq Peter Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Manchester England Posts: 435	Re: Frame Rate I did not know that adjusting the frame rate or shutter speed would increase the speed of the video I just thought the video would be much higher quality at 50fps enabling me to do some really cool slow motion effects if I ever needed to. If I film at 1280 x 720 (50fps) with the shutter speed set to 100 would the video not look like its playing at double speed? This is my video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32v5RHCQgmI