Audio Format? 7D & Zoom at DVinfo.net

Daniel Dayani · March 24th, 2011, 03:29 PM

Hey guys, i post a million questions a week but i have yet another... My question is in regards to recording audio. I have just got the zoom h4n in the mail today and I am shooting a concert with the Canon 7D tomorrow. I edit on FCP and was wondering what format I should record audio in on the Zoom h4n(MP3 or WAV; at 128, 96 , ect...??)... Are there any specific settings I set my Zoom to that you would recomend in terms of concert noise? I am also planing on doing some short interviews, any tips? Generally i want the best quality that i can get without any background distortion and noise( and no problems with sync in pluraleyes)___. thanks again!

daniel

Jon Fairhurst · March 24th, 2011, 03:42 PM

If you have a big enough card to capture the whole event, I'd recommend 48 kHz @ 24 bits, uncompressed PCM WAV.

By recording at 48 kHz, you won't have to re-sample the audio for the final video. By recording 24-bits, you'll have lots of headroom. Set the recording levels on the quiet side, since the H4n has no limiters.

After you edit the piece, including level adjustments, possible compression, and EQ, apply dithering and create a 16-bit, 48 kHz master.

Best of luck with the recording!

Daniel Dayani · March 24th, 2011, 03:50 PM

Thanks for the quick reply. ignore my audio ignorance, but by recording 48 khz@ 24 bit, will that be the best quality to sync, and edit with? Hypothetically i want the least amount of problems (compressing ect..) in the edit, to the point where once i sync the audio, i am done with it. Thanks again,
~daniel.

Jon Fairhurst · March 24th, 2011, 05:36 PM

Yes, you'd use 24-bit, 48 kHz for syncing and editing. That will give you optimum quality. Some like 96kHz, but that cuts your recording time in half and any quality gains are questionable and might be negative.

Professionals with top equipment shoot at 24-bit, 48 kHz. 96 kHz and above is for studio and audiophile work with very high-end equipment - especially when delivering to SACD, DVD-Audio, or some other high sample rate output.

Video is output at 48 kHz, so shoot at 48 kHz. :)

Daniel Weber · March 25th, 2011, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Dayani

Hey guys, i post a million questions a week but i have yet another... My question is in regards to recording audio. I have just got the zoom h4n in the mail today and I am shooting a concert with the Canon 7D tomorrow. I edit on FCP and was wondering what format I should record audio in on the Zoom h4n(MP3 or WAV; at 128, 96 , ect...??)... Are there any specific settings I set my Zoom to that you would recomend in terms of concert noise? I am also planing on doing some short interviews, any tips? Generally i want the best quality that i can get without any background distortion and noise( and no problems with sync in pluraleyes)___. thanks again!

daniel

Jon has given you some great advice. Are you taking a feed direct from the audio board or just using the built in mics? I would take a feed from the board if at all possible.

Greg Fiske · March 25th, 2011, 09:06 AM

Jon, I've been told to use the concert limiter at weddings? So I think it does have limiters? Did you mean, no good limiters?

Daniel Dayani · March 25th, 2011, 04:27 PM

im actually just going to be using the mics,iv heard tests and without even having a direct feed this zoom picks up excellent quality!

Jon Fairhurst · March 25th, 2011, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Fiske

Jon, I've been told to use the concert limiter at weddings? So I think it does have limiters? Did you mean, no good limiters?

I had tested the H4n some time ago but don't own one. Recently I read that the DR-100 had limiters but the H4n didn't. Maybe I'm repeating bad info. I'm not sure. Hopefully an H4n owner can clarify...

Scott Mason · November 29th, 2011, 08:20 AM

Question about more head room.. (24bit) does that mean I'm less likely to get a volume spike that will get clipped.. or just that if I need to boost the audio volume it will be better quality because Im working with more info?

So if I do record in 24 bit.. I would want to bring back down to 16 bit for youtube/dvd so what exactly does apply dithering mean? Can anyone suggest a good workflow (using FCP and SoundTrackPro)

Luc De Wandel · November 29th, 2011, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Dayani

im actually just going to be using the mics,iv heard tests and without even having a direct feed this zoom picks up excellent quality!

Insist on getting a line feed from the PA if at all possible; recording with built-in mics will always sound horrible, no matter how good the H4 mics are. You'll get a hollow sound with no depth, louse treble response etc...

Don Litten · December 1st, 2011, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

I had tested the H4n some time ago but don't own one. Recently I read that the DR-100 had limiters but the H4n didn't. Maybe I'm repeating bad info. I'm not sure. Hopefully an H4n owner can clarify...

I have 3 of them and yes they do have limiters. I have no idea how well they work because I've never used them.

He'll be much better off using it without them. They are nothing more than an AGC and he'll lose something at some point.

Good advice to set it low or midrange and bring it up in post.

Bernard Lau · December 12th, 2011, 06:33 AM

If you can, you should definitely get a feed from the mixing desk so that you get a clean feed of audio. By recording in 4 channel mode, u will be using the inbuilt mic also. Then mix it in post! Recording at 48khz would be fine and make sure u set your frame rates properly for your project before u sync, or else u might get audio shifting later in the edit.

Mark Watson · December 14th, 2011, 07:14 AM

Just to add two notes... if using the onboard mics, they WILL pick up the click sound made by the buttons on the unit. For example, each time you adjust the recording level with the up/down button on the side of the recorder, those faint sounding clicks are very loud on playback. I prefer to use the wired remote. Also, remember to verify you are actually recording and not in record/pause mode, which is what happens when you hit the record button. Hit record twice or hit record and then hit the pause button to actually get into recording mode, indicated by a solid red light on the REC button. Sounds simple, but man I got burned once by both of these.

Mark

John Wiley · December 19th, 2011, 04:59 PM

I too have been burnt by the record/pause mode of the Zoom H4n.

I agree with others that you should try and get a live feed. The quality will be far superior to what the onboard mics will get.

March 24th, 2011, 03:29 PM	#1
Daniel Dayani Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Topanga, CA, USA Posts: 39	Audio Format? 7D & Zoom Hey guys, i post a million questions a week but i have yet another... My question is in regards to recording audio. I have just got the zoom h4n in the mail today and I am shooting a concert with the Canon 7D tomorrow. I edit on FCP and was wondering what format I should record audio in on the Zoom h4n(MP3 or WAV; at 128, 96 , ect...??)... Are there any specific settings I set my Zoom to that you would recomend in terms of concert noise? I am also planing on doing some short interviews, any tips? Generally i want the best quality that i can get without any background distortion and noise( and no problems with sync in pluraleyes)___. thanks again! daniel

March 24th, 2011, 03:42 PM	#2
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: Audio Format? 7D & Zoom If you have a big enough card to capture the whole event, I'd recommend 48 kHz @ 24 bits, uncompressed PCM WAV. By recording at 48 kHz, you won't have to re-sample the audio for the final video. By recording 24-bits, you'll have lots of headroom. Set the recording levels on the quiet side, since the H4n has no limiters. After you edit the piece, including level adjustments, possible compression, and EQ, apply dithering and create a 16-bit, 48 kHz master. Best of luck with the recording! __________________ Jon Fairhurst

March 24th, 2011, 03:50 PM	#3
Daniel Dayani Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Topanga, CA, USA Posts: 39	Re: Audio Format? 7D & Zoom Thanks for the quick reply. ignore my audio ignorance, but by recording 48 khz@ 24 bit, will that be the best quality to sync, and edit with? Hypothetically i want the least amount of problems (compressing ect..) in the edit, to the point where once i sync the audio, i am done with it. Thanks again, ~daniel.

March 24th, 2011, 05:36 PM	#4
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: Audio Format? 7D & Zoom Yes, you'd use 24-bit, 48 kHz for syncing and editing. That will give you optimum quality. Some like 96kHz, but that cuts your recording time in half and any quality gains are questionable and might be negative. Professionals with top equipment shoot at 24-bit, 48 kHz. 96 kHz and above is for studio and audiophile work with very high-end equipment - especially when delivering to SACD, DVD-Audio, or some other high sample rate output. Video is output at 48 kHz, so shoot at 48 kHz. :) __________________ Jon Fairhurst

March 25th, 2011, 09:06 AM	#6
Greg Fiske Major Player Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Santa Ana, CA Posts: 499	Re: Audio Format? 7D & Zoom Jon, I've been told to use the concert limiter at weddings? So I think it does have limiters? Did you mean, no good limiters?

March 25th, 2011, 04:27 PM	#7
Daniel Dayani Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Topanga, CA, USA Posts: 39	Re: Audio Format? 7D & Zoom im actually just going to be using the mics,iv heard tests and without even having a direct feed this zoom picks up excellent quality!

November 29th, 2011, 08:20 AM	#9
Scott Mason Tourist Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Gaylord, Michigan Posts: 1	Re: Audio Format? 7D & Zoom Question about more head room.. (24bit) does that mean I'm less likely to get a volume spike that will get clipped.. or just that if I need to boost the audio volume it will be better quality because Im working with more info? So if I do record in 24 bit.. I would want to bring back down to 16 bit for youtube/dvd so what exactly does apply dithering mean? Can anyone suggest a good workflow (using FCP and SoundTrackPro)

December 12th, 2011, 06:33 AM	#12
Bernard Lau Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 56	Re: Audio Format? 7D & Zoom If you can, you should definitely get a feed from the mixing desk so that you get a clean feed of audio. By recording in 4 channel mode, u will be using the inbuilt mic also. Then mix it in post! Recording at 48khz would be fine and make sure u set your frame rates properly for your project before u sync, or else u might get audio shifting later in the edit. __________________ Facebook & Twitter me with "bernardlaufilms" www.bernardlau.com.au \| www.weddingvideosydney.org.au

December 14th, 2011, 07:14 AM	#13
Mark Watson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Whidbey Island Posts: 873	Re: Audio Format? 7D & Zoom Just to add two notes... if using the onboard mics, they WILL pick up the click sound made by the buttons on the unit. For example, each time you adjust the recording level with the up/down button on the side of the recorder, those faint sounding clicks are very loud on playback. I prefer to use the wired remote. Also, remember to verify you are actually recording and not in record/pause mode, which is what happens when you hit the record button. Hit record twice or hit record and then hit the pause button to actually get into recording mode, indicated by a solid red light on the REC button. Sounds simple, but man I got burned once by both of these. Mark

December 19th, 2011, 04:59 PM	#14
John Wiley Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Byron Bay, Australia Posts: 1,155	Re: Audio Format? 7D & Zoom I too have been burnt by the record/pause mode of the Zoom H4n. I agree with others that you should try and get a live feed. The quality will be far superior to what the onboard mics will get.