Finally made the jump to a DSLR!!

[Steve Moses]

Had planned to all year after viewing all those great looking clips, but I had so much on the table this year just didn't have the time to switch & learn. Went to Tulsa last month to with Laura to help film the Von Lanken's daughters wedding and had the pleasure to shoot with my good friend David Perry & Jordan Berry. Watching them work magic with those cams pushed me over the line. That & all the friends I can call with any questions who use them. Ordered a 60D, should be here before Christmas. I'm giving it to Laura as her present. You think I can get away with that?

Got a lens budget of 1500-2000, no L-lenses, just want a good set to get the job done, any suggestion would be welcome. We are in SoCal and do a lot of outdoor wedding, but the receptions can get pretty dark, but usually have the LED wild lighting. Thanks guy/girls, never too old to learn a new trick.........right?

[Joel Peregrine]

Hi Steve,

Just a few questions that can guide the recommendations:

In what capacity will you use the DSLR, i.e. during what portions of the day will be covered with a dslr or will you be using DSLR's exclusively? How many cameras do you have running during ceremonies and receptions? Are you using your own lighting at receptions? If so is it on or off-camera? Are you currently using a shoulder mount, going handheld or using a monopod during prep, post and reception candid work?

[Ivan Gomez Villafane]

I was worried about the "how many cameras" as well...

I got my first overheat warning the other day filming a short film. I explained the situation and we just waited a little bit for the camera to cool down - but I don't see how that could work out OK for me while shooting a wedding.

Oh and about the -outdoor- thing, you probably already do, but if you don't, I would get an ND filter to avoid changing shutter speeds against your will.

Good luck!

[Steve Moses]

Hi Joel, long time no talk. :) Thanks for responding. In answer to your questions...


We will slowly work it into our workflow, probably preps and assorted reception footage. Our aim is too be 100% in a year.

Half the weddings 2 manned cams & the other half 1 camera..no remotes

No light stands, just a LEG on camera

Prep= handheld Ceremony = tripod reception = monopod

This is a big change for almost anyone, but we always want to improve, even after 28 years. Our brides deserve the best from us and so do we. How was the transition for you?

Thanks Joel

[Steve Moses]

Thanks Ivan, ND filter, for sure. David Perry was using a screw on ND filter that could be adjusted by turning it like a lens, he loved it

[Greg Fiske]

Steve,
Others will have some standard kit lenses as recommendations. The 17-55mm IS is a standard bread and butter lens for wedding work. 50mm on a crop works well, hand held with a gorilla pod or similar. I use the 70-200 on a tripod for the ceremony. I guess my main recommendation (one I had learned early on) is to look into vintage glass. You often times get a more capable video lens (un-clicked aperture ring, smoother focusing ring), and competitive to the L-glass. It takes some work to research compatible lenses and to source them on ebay, so might not be worth it to you. Prices have gone up in the last couple years with all the video dslr frenzy. Below are some links to see whats compatible. Eventually you will get a feel for how the different glass renders a certain style. L-glass can start to get clinical, and we position our brand as a vintage filmatic quality, as that is where we are investing our money.

M42 lenses on Canon EOS 5D

Manual Focus Lenses

50's
SMC Pentax-A 50/1.2 $600
Rokkor 58/1.2 $200 <-needs modification
(search youtube)
Georg Pillwein :: Photographien | MC Rokkor 58 f1.2 to MAF Conversion
Noctilux 58mm 1.2 (expensive)
Leica R 50/1.4 (expensive)
super takumar 50mm f1.4
Zuiko 50/1.4
Zuiko 50mm f/1.2
Mamiya 55mm f1.4 ($20-70)
Yashinon DS 1.4 / 50 mm
Voigtländer 58 1.4 ($400)
olympus OM zuiko 55 1.2 ( leitax conversion,) $250
tomioka/mamiya/chinon 55mm 1.4 (cheap)
Planar C/Y 50mm f1.4
ZEISS PLANAR 1.4

[Steve Moses]

Hi Greg, thanks so much for that response. What 17-55mm IS do you use? Vintage lenses, yes, my good buddies are Chris Watson & Marl Von Lanken. They both have extensive knowledge of vintage lenses and Chris even has a great DVD he produced on that subject, and also recently wrote a article for EventDV.

There is so much help from colleagues like yourself, being we work the same area it is especially nice of you to offer to help a 28 year veteran & DSLR newbie like myself. ;) What a great industry we have, people helping people. Thanks again :)

[Greg Fiske]

I've just started out, but have had a lot of veterans helping out along the way, I think that EventDV article is actually what got me into the vintage lens options. The 17-55mm is the Canon. Here is a good thread about dslr video not being able to resolve better quality glass. I use my camera for stills, so I don't really know where I stand with the debate at this point.
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/eos-60d-...-kit-lens.html

Stuff I've learned in the last year. Keeping your camera kit minimal and light has some advantages, IMO. You can be discrete and get authentic expressions from your subjects. Do some test and figure out how much weight you can handle without getting micro-jitters. You have to learn how to deal with the limitations of DSLR's. Pans need to be slow. Software like Mercalli can turn good hand-held footage into really expensive looking footage. DSLR's barely resolve 720p, so if your target is a 50"TV screen, dropping your 1080p footage down gives you some leeway with cropping and you still retain the same amount of quality. Stabilization software needs to be able to deal with rolling shutter, or its worthless. Things like Mercalli and deshaker work, Mocha does not.
Its important to get the footage right in camera rather than post. Whitbalance properly, as footage that was captured wrong in camera I could not really fix 100%. Don't bother with the superflat camera profiles, that's more for if your going to get creative with your grading, and makes footage look bad, IMO. Some more software that helps:

Noise: use neatimage
to fix dead pixels: CC Simple Wire Removal, just pick a spot and it gets rid of them.
newbluefx- Has a good addon that removes about 75% of flash in videos.

[Joel Peregrine]

Hello Steve!

Originally Posted by Steve Moses

We will slowly work it into our workflow, probably preps and assorted reception footage. Our aim is too be 100% in a year.l

OK - that affects what you'll need. I'd suggest starting out with a fast all-purpose zoom to get yourself acquainted with the feel of the camera. The Canon 17-55mm f2.8 is a great lens, as are the lenses from Tamron and Sigma with similar focal lengths. I'd recommend that you use a lens with image stabilization at first. I think Tamron calls it VC and Sigma OS (?). After you realize how you like to use the camera you will come to your own conclusions about what lenses you need, i.e. wider, tighter, faster, lighter etc. Most first-time dslr shooters (myself included) start with a zoom and slowly build up a collection of primes and the ability to use them. My first lens was the Canon 24-105 f4L IS. Nice lens but slow. I found myself putting on faster primes (f1.2 and f1.4) in naturally-lit indoor situations so the gain wouldn't get above 800 iso. After a few events the 24-105 wasn't coming out of the case at all so I sold it. For preps I end up using a manual focus Nikon 35mm f1.4, Sigma 20mm f1.8 and Pentax 50mm f1.2. If there is enough room I'll sometimes bring a Canon 70-200mm f2.8 IS for close-ups so I don't have to be right on top of everyone. I'm on a monopod all the time with a Rode VideoMic on the camera. (There may be a version of Magic Lantern coming out soon for the 60D - definitely something to consider down the road.)

Originally Posted by Steve Moses

Half the weddings 2 manned cams & the other half 1 camera..no remotesl

So for a while you'll use your video cameras for the ceremony - that will mean you don't necessarily need a long zoom for now. I had two Canon 70-200mm f4L IS's for a short time but like the 24-105 I found them too slow at f4. I sold them both and now have the Canon 70-200 f2.8L IS and two used Tokina 80-200 f2.8 manual focus lenses for Nikon that use with an adapter. The Tokina's I use for the vows and the Canon zoom goes on a slider. (I found early on that having the same lens on each camera for the ceremony makes matching them much easier.) The Tokina is a very inexpensive lens - I got mine on eBay for under $150 each. If you shop for them just be sure the tripod mount is included - its a very specialized piece and the lens needs the support. They aren't as tack sharp as the Canon, but they are also 1/10th of the price and are just as fast. IMHO the Canon 70-200 2.8 IS is the best lens for processionals - you just need to practice focussing on a moving target until it becomes second-nature.

Originally Posted by Steve Moses

No light stands, just a LEG on cameral

OK - that may mean that your all-around zoom might work in a dark reception hall. I use 13' stands with 75 watt bulbs that I'm not always able to get in the best positions, so I rarely use a lens slower than f1.4. At receptions I'm normally shooting toasts with 85mm f1.4's. I do have one zoom I use at receptions a lot - the Tokina 11-16mm f2.8. Its the only lens I allow myself to go up to 1600 iso with because there just isn't another lens that is as wide that is faster. Its on the steadicam most of the time.

Originally Posted by Steve Moses

Prep= handheld Ceremony = tripod reception = monopodl

If you're using a lens without IS you'll probably want to use a monopod during preps also.

Originally Posted by Steve Moses

This is a big change for almost anyone, but we always want to improve, even after 28 years. Our brides deserve the best from us and so do we. How was the transition for you? l

I loved the whole process - the image quality, the search for lenses etc. I had the luxury of deciding to switch during a period that I didn't have to shoot and still very much look forward to shooting with these - definitely couldn't say that when I was shooting with the Canon XHA1. I'm still editing a few weddings I shot with the A1's and cringe at things I was very content with before I switched to DSLRs.

[Steve Moses]

Man Joel, how can I thank you. Your responses remind me how much the video community misses your insight & expertise. I know business comes first, but I sure would enjoy some articles or seminars from the legendary Joel. You & the others have helped myself & anyone else who reads this post. The power of DVInfo is amazing. :)

[Steve Moses]

Thanks Greg, as I said to Joel, the members here are top of the line...I don't miss the drama at all. ;) Thanks man.

[Joel Peregrine]

Originally Posted by Steve Moses

Man Joel, how can I thank you?

By getting a bunch of other opinions and in the end letting us know what worked best for you. Whereas the ergonomics of the camera body is in transition the lenses we choose will be with us a lot longer. Any guidance for videographers not used to buying lenses separately will be greatly appreciated.

Originally Posted by Steve Moses

Your responses remind me how much the video community misses your insight & expertise. I know business comes first, but I sure would enjoy some articles or seminars from the legendary Joel.

Ack. I'm still just following my instincts rather than following examples. I think that is why it would be hard to explain it.

[Brett Culp]

I recommend playing with a 17-55 f2.8 zoom with image stabilization (Canon or Tamron) & then the Canon 50mm 1.8 prime ($100).

If you like the ability to use fast (low f-stop) primes, you will quickly graduate from this $100 prime, but it will give you a good sense of the difference between zooms & primes. You will learn what each is good at. You will learn the pluses & minuses of each without investing too much money or time in gear you might not want to use.

There are many ways to shoot with these cameras. As you get experience with these 2 lenses the things that excite you will lead you to your next purchases.

Have fun!

[Steve Moses]

Brother Brett, how are you? Thanks for the info, lots of great ideas from very knowledgeable people, including yourself. Here is a tidbit lots of peeps don't know, Brett was the minister at Laura & our 25th anniversary renewal of vows at WEVA in 2009, along with Mark & Trish. Still married Brett. Happy holidays to you & your family . :)

[Geoffrey Chandler]

Originally Posted by Joel Peregrine

I'd suggest starting out with a fast all-purpose zoom to get yourself acquainted with the feel of the camera. The Canon 17-55mm f2.8 is a great lens, as are the lenses from Tamron and Sigma with similar focal lengths. I'd recommend that you use a lens with image stabilization at first. For preps I end up using a manual focus Nikon 35mm f1.4, Sigma 20mm f1.8 and Pentax 50mm f1.2. If there is enough room I'll sometimes bring a Canon 70-200mm f2.8 IS for close-ups so I don't have to be right on top of everyone. I'm on a monopod all the time with a Rode VideoMic on the camera. (There may be a version of Magic Lantern coming out soon for the 60D - definitely something to consider down the road.)

I rarely use a lens slower than f1.4. At receptions I'm normally shooting toasts with 85mm f1.4's. I do have one zoom I use at receptions a lot - the Tokina 11-16mm f2.8. Its the only lens I allow myself to go up to 1600 iso with because there just isn't another lens that is as wide that is faster. Its on the steadicam most of the time.

If you're using a lens without IS you'll probably want to use a monopod during preps also.

.

Joel,

Can you tell me when you are hand-holding; when you are using the mono-pod, and when you use a glidecam stabilizer?

Pre-ceremony prep: all on mono-pod (with fluid head I presume)?
Ceremony: all tripod I would think?
Reception: What do you use for a steady picture when you use the 85mm f/1.4? Do you hand-hold when shooting with a really wide angle lens at the reception?

Are you using a monopod like the Manfrotto 561BHDV-1?

Thank you very much
Geoffrey