could someone explain the 12 min rec. limit?

[David J. Payne]

Hi all,
thinking about getting a D7 as a 2nd wedding cam but have read you can only shoot 12 mins at a time. Could someone explain if upon reaching the 12 min cut off, a new file is created and recording continues (missing nothing in between) or if it needs to be manually rested and then someone has to push record again?

The only drawback to my master plan is that I'd use this cam un manned at the back of the church and therefore if it only rec's for 12 mins this is not an option for me.

The other alternative is using my FX1 to capture from the rear and cutting the footage (50i) in with the 25p footage from my other cams. As there will be very limited movement during the ceremony do you think the difference will still be too obvious?

Cheers,

[Perrone Ford]

7D. records approximately 12 minutes. Then stops. It requires human intervention to re-start. The Panasonic GH1 does not have this limitation so perhaps you'd be interested in that one.

[David J. Payne]

thanks perrone, had not even heard of the GH1 until now... I will have to start my research again. Are there any obvious things lacking from it compared to the 7D? Are the same selection of lenses available or do you need to buy converters?

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by David Payne

thanks perrone, had not even heard of the GH1 until now... I will have to start my research again. Are there any obvious things lacking from it compared to the 7D? Are the same selection of lenses available or do you need to buy converters?

Well other than Nikon, no one has the selection of glass that Canon does for stills cameras. The GH1 only has a few lenses native to it's fairly new mount. Both the sensor and the mount are part of a new system called micro four thirds, written m43. Several manufacturers have jumped on this bandwagon though and options are increasing.

One of the great benefits of m43 is that it's a mirrorless design with a very short flange distance. This means you can use adapters to put darn near ANY glass on it. Everything from Canon, to Nikon, ot real Hollywood cinema glass. None of it will autofocus though. For video, that's not such a big deal, but for some, they really want hat.

The m43 sensor is somewhat smaller than the 7D sensor, so the crop factor is higher. In the 7D the crop factor if you put full-frame glass on it, is 1.6x. On the GH1 it would be 2.0x. So getting wide glass on it is somewhat more difficult and pricey.

All in all, it sounds like what you want is a big sensor video camera. Well, the GH1 is an obvious choice, but there will be options on the market in the coming weeks. Sony has a product coming perhaps in just a couple of weeks that you might be interested in. Both Sony and Panasonic have announced new products that should be out before Christmas that are more video camera like, though more expensive.

This segment is going to heat up rapidly, so if you're not in a hurry, sit it out until Christmas as see what blossoms. It's an exciting time to be honest.

[Chris Davis]

Originally Posted by David Payne

thanks perrone, had not even heard of the GH1 until now... I will have to start my research again. Are there any obvious things lacking from it compared to the 7D? Are the same selection of lenses available or do you need to buy converters?

I own a GH1. In my research, I found several advantages the GH1 had over the 7D, and very few (no?) disadvantages. My suspicious nature made me wonder why that was and the only answer I could come up with was the fact that the GH1 was designed after Panasonic watched the success of the 5D/7D and simply improved upon that.

Advantages of the GH1 (not necessarily an exhaustive list, but what was important to me):

1. No record limit other than the space available on the SDHC card.
2. Autofocus while shooting (with stock lens.)
3. Smaller size - side-by-side, there really is quite a difference.
4. Availability of C-mount adapter.
5. Price. I paid $1200, but have seen it as low as $950 (with lens.)

[Perrone Ford]

David,

I will not get into a "who's camera is better" discussion here because this thread could devolve VERY quickly. Suffice it to say the GH1 has several advantages, and the 7D/T2i has several advantages. There are dozens and dozens of threads describing each in excruciating detail, with a lot of hyperbole and grandstanding on both sides.

To me, it works out like this. The GH1 works more like a video camera and it's supposed to. The Canon cameras work like little mini film cameras, and some prefer that.

Choose your weapon and come out filming!

[David J. Payne]

BUT I DONT WANT TO WAIT!!!!!

ahem... excuse me.

Thank you so much for your advice, I'm going to spend some time researching some panasonic and the differences between that and the 7D.

[David J. Payne]

wow i like it already. Love the flip our LCD too. I'm just worried about lens selection and the increased crop factor to justify upgrading from my D90. Am I right in saying crop factor only affects the angle of the lens, not the quality of the picture? Ie as long as I buy a wider prime (20 instead of 50) then I should have no problem?
Im quite new to photography, will I get a reduced depth of field by going for a 20mm 1.8 when compared to a 50mm 1.8? I'd assume so?

What are your opinions on the stock 18-140 lens and how does the auto focus work? I like the idea of using the standard lens without the recording limit for a B cam at a wedding, and then throwing on a prime and using manual focus for artistic shots during the photographs... It's already pushing the 7D out of the picture but I am very easily persuaded! :(

[Manus Sweeney]

if youre buying it in england you'll have a 30mins record limit, as opposed to the non EU models

[David J. Payne]

whoa.. that changes everything... So there is no model that will shoot 25p instead of 24p and have no record limit?

[Kelly Langerak]

The length of 12 min has never been an issue for the ceremony or speeches which are the longest at any wedding. During the ceremony I start and stop and lose about 1-2 seconds. I find that I stop it around 8-9 minutes since during the ceremony there are always little breaks. If you are doing two camera shoots then it will NOT be an issue at all.

The camera freezing up on me has been my biggest issue. This tends to happen when the camera is over used and the room is warm, but its rare that it happens.

When I do one camera shoots if I have to stop then I have to stop and I just edit the ceremony in a clever way, but it has only happened once in the 25 weddings I've used the 7D.

I'm now looking for a second one.

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Manus Sweeney

if youre buying it in england you'll have a 30mins record limit, as opposed to the non EU models

I believe that applies to shooting SD rather than HD,

[Manus Sweeney]

from what i remember both models shoot all the same frame rates but the EU model is limited to 30 mins in HD and SD due to some tax reasons (GH1 owners correct me if im wrong!)

The GH1 is a nice camera but has serious codec issues which were recently 'solved' by a hack, but which make the camera a little less stable from what I gather, also there was a mention that the latest GH1s in the shops were unhackable.

[Liam Hall]

Originally Posted by Manus Sweeney

if youre buying it in england you'll have a 30mins record limit, as opposed to the non EU models

Nope. The 7D has a 12 minute record limit in HD, 30 min in SD whether you buy it in Amsterdam or New Amsterdam.

[David J. Payne]

Originally Posted by Kelly Langerak

If you are doing two camera shoots then it will NOT be an issue at all.

The issue is that it will be a 2 cam but 1 cam operator shoot. I.e - the DSLR will be unattended at the back of the aisle so needs to record continually, unless I suppose I use that at the front but until I start using a DSLR and can trust it a bit more I'd have to double up on cams at the front.

What is the codec issue? I know AVCHD is very demanding to edit. I have a panasonic HF20 and can't mix the footage from it with my FX1 captured 50i footage, however I think thats because my HF20 is the 60i model.