could someone explain the 12 min rec. limit?

Manus Sweeney · September 2nd, 2010, 05:56 AM

have a search for 'mud' and 'gh1'.. lots of test videos around, AVCHD is at a very low bitrate on the gh1

Zach Love · September 2nd, 2010, 08:33 AM

OK, back to the OP...

I believe the 12min record thing has to do with the EU & taxes. Still cameras & video cameras are taxed differently when you purchase them, the 12min cap makes it so it is considered more of a still camera than a video camera. After all, no real video camera just stops recording after X # of min.

This is what I've remembered seeing before, but I can't find it now to back it up.

If this is the case, I don't know why Canon just didn't release a EU version with the cap & another version w/o the cap to the rest of the world.

Chris Davis · September 2nd, 2010, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Payne

whoa.. that changes everything... So there is no model that will shoot 25p instead of 24p and have no record limit?

Sorry David, I did not pay attention to the fact that you are in Europe. Yes, EU version of the GH1 stops recording at 30 minutes. If it recorded longer, it would be classified as a video camera and taxed higher.

However... there are firmware hacks freely available that remove the 30 minute limit and enable 25p recording. A Google search will reveal the details.

David J. Payne · September 2nd, 2010, 09:35 AM

The more I read up the more I find out that this camera relies on 'hacks' to do the job I'd want it to do... the removal of the 30 min limit, the 50mb bitrate, removing the 'mud'.... It just sounds so risky.

Is it going to be a case of the iphone with Panasonic refusing to offer any service/advice if the device is hacked.

Chris Davis · September 2nd, 2010, 10:30 AM

Yeah, I guess that's what happens when you want a piece of equipment to do what it was not intended to do (at least in the EU.)

Here in the USA, I've been using my GH1 as it came out of the box with no complaints.

David J. Payne · September 2nd, 2010, 02:36 PM

but the mud and low bitrate is nothing to do with the EU model. I've seen some great clips on vimeo of the autofocus on the 14-140 at work and its tempted me more... I suppose there are no automatic firmware updates like with hacked iphones etc so surely once its hacked and working ok theres no risk of it being locked/bricked in future...? I hope...

John Kopec · September 4th, 2010, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zach Love

OK, back to the OP...

I believe the 12min record thing has to do with the EU & taxes.

I was under the impression that it was because of the FAT32 maximum file size, which is theoretically +/- 4gigs.

12 minutes * 330mpm (megabytes per minute on the 7d for 1080p footage) = 3960 megs, or about 4 gigs.

Perrone Ford · September 4th, 2010, 04:46 PM

No. Yes that math works out, but other VIDEO cameras are subject to exactly the same math, So when one file reaches it's limit, they start another file immediately, and keep recording. Unlike these cameras which simply stop and do NOT start another recording.

Kin Lau · September 4th, 2010, 04:53 PM

I have both the GH1 (with the hack) and 7D.

Both have their own strengths.

GH1
- longer recording limit
- much smaller/lighter with articulated LCD and very good EVF
- greater choice of recording formats, HD & SD
- very adaptable to 3rd party lenses, with manual focus and aperture control
- fast and usable AF in video mode
- probably the best all-around 10x zoom out there in DSLR land.

7D
- many more fast and wide lenses to choose from, 17-50/2.8's with IS/OS/VC (Canon, Sigma and Tamron all make one), Tokina's 11-16/2.8 and also other fast and wide primes
- CF cards are still cheaper and faster than SD's
- better battery life with an option of a battery grip
- more robust
- I also use the custom C1, C2 and C3 settings on the dial alot

Taky Cheung · September 5th, 2010, 02:15 PM

I was wanting to go with the GH1 route but I joined the party late. All the Gh1 out there I can find is unhackale. That makes the low bitrate AVCHD quite inferior. Panasonic decided to block the hack so they would think consumers would go with their higher end camcorders? I ended up bought 3 canon t2i instead.

The 12 min limit ties to the SD card FAT32 format that each file is only 4GB. Gh1 will increment the next file automatically so that would be an issue. The EU tax issue limit is 30 minues (29:59). Good thing for T2i that support the latest SDXC card that can record 30 minutes at a time.

I was worrying about the 12 minutes will be a big problem when shooting weddings. It ended up it is not an issue. I just always remember to stop recording and record again. With 2 cameras taking turns, still have continously coverage. The overheating is another concern anyway.

David J. Payne · September 5th, 2010, 03:01 PM

Taky, have you experienced the overheating then? Is that with the GH1?

How can you tell if a GH1 is hackable before purchasing? I've seen one on ebay that claims to be on 1.3 firmware..?

Taky Cheung · September 5th, 2010, 03:07 PM

I don't own any Gh1 anymore so I don't knwo about the overheating issue with it. But for 7D and T2i,

firmware 1.3 is not hackable. I don't think you can find any new stock that is hackable these days.

But after trying out with Gh1 and T2i, I don't like GH1 design. T2i is much easier to use. I use it with battery grip, and there're plenty of lens choices.

Chris Davis · September 5th, 2010, 07:12 PM

I have not experience any overheating with my GH1. However, when it starts a new file at 12 minutes (4GB), it misses a half-second or so of material. While that doesn't seem like a big deal, I'm always worried it'll happen over an important word during a presentation or something like that.

David J. Payne · September 6th, 2010, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taky Cheung

I don't think you can find any new stock that is hackable these days.

how can you tell before buying? this has stopped me in my tracks... i was ready to buy!

Perrone Ford · September 6th, 2010, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Payne

how can you tell before buying? this has stopped me in my tracks... i was ready to buy!

You can't. I suspect that's stopped a lot of people in their tracks.

September 2nd, 2010, 08:33 AM	#17
Zach Love Major Player Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 944	OK, back to the OP... I believe the 12min record thing has to do with the EU & taxes. Still cameras & video cameras are taxed differently when you purchase them, the 12min cap makes it so it is considered more of a still camera than a video camera. After all, no real video camera just stops recording after X # of min. This is what I've remembered seeing before, but I can't find it now to back it up. If this is the case, I don't know why Canon just didn't release a EU version with the cap & another version w/o the cap to the rest of the world. __________________ Nothing says you're a serious video maker like S-VHS

September 4th, 2010, 04:46 PM	#23
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	No. Yes that math works out, but other VIDEO cameras are subject to exactly the same math, So when one file reaches it's limit, they start another file immediately, and keep recording. Unlike these cameras which simply stop and do NOT start another recording. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

September 5th, 2010, 02:15 PM	#25
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	I was wanting to go with the GH1 route but I joined the party late. All the Gh1 out there I can find is unhackale. That makes the low bitrate AVCHD quite inferior. Panasonic decided to block the hack so they would think consumers would go with their higher end camcorders? I ended up bought 3 canon t2i instead. The 12 min limit ties to the SD card FAT32 format that each file is only 4GB. Gh1 will increment the next file automatically so that would be an issue. The EU tax issue limit is 30 minues (29:59). Good thing for T2i that support the latest SDXC card that can record 30 minutes at a time. I was worrying about the 12 minutes will be a big problem when shooting weddings. It ended up it is not an issue. I just always remember to stop recording and record again. With 2 cameras taking turns, still have continously coverage. The overheating is another concern anyway. __________________ LA Color Pros Blog RODE Authorized Reseller . Comer LED Camera Lights . TakyBox HTML5 Menu Generator

September 5th, 2010, 03:07 PM	#27
Taky Cheung Inner Circle Join Date: May 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 2,114	I don't own any Gh1 anymore so I don't knwo about the overheating issue with it. But for 7D and T2i, firmware 1.3 is not hackable. I don't think you can find any new stock that is hackable these days. But after trying out with Gh1 and T2i, I don't like GH1 design. T2i is much easier to use. I use it with battery grip, and there're plenty of lens choices. __________________ LA Color Pros Blog RODE Authorized Reseller . Comer LED Camera Lights . TakyBox HTML5 Menu Generator

September 2nd, 2010, 05:56 AM	#16
Manus Sweeney Major Player Join Date: May 2009 Location: Amsterdam, NL Posts: 217	have a search for 'mud' and 'gh1'.. lots of test videos around, AVCHD is at a very low bitrate on the gh1

September 2nd, 2010, 09:35 AM	#19
David J. Payne Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Southend-On-Sea, England Posts: 368	The more I read up the more I find out that this camera relies on 'hacks' to do the job I'd want it to do... the removal of the 30 min limit, the 50mb bitrate, removing the 'mud'.... It just sounds so risky. Is it going to be a case of the iphone with Panasonic refusing to offer any service/advice if the device is hacked.

September 2nd, 2010, 10:30 AM	#20
Chris Davis Trustee Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Willmar, MN Posts: 1,400	Yeah, I guess that's what happens when you want a piece of equipment to do what it was not intended to do (at least in the EU.) Here in the USA, I've been using my GH1 as it came out of the box with no complaints.

September 2nd, 2010, 02:36 PM	#21
David J. Payne Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Southend-On-Sea, England Posts: 368	but the mud and low bitrate is nothing to do with the EU model. I've seen some great clips on vimeo of the autofocus on the 14-140 at work and its tempted me more... I suppose there are no automatic firmware updates like with hacked iphones etc so surely once its hacked and working ok theres no risk of it being locked/bricked in future...? I hope...

September 4th, 2010, 04:53 PM	#24
Kin Lau Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 385	I have both the GH1 (with the hack) and 7D. Both have their own strengths. GH1 - longer recording limit - much smaller/lighter with articulated LCD and very good EVF - greater choice of recording formats, HD & SD - very adaptable to 3rd party lenses, with manual focus and aperture control - fast and usable AF in video mode - probably the best all-around 10x zoom out there in DSLR land. 7D - many more fast and wide lenses to choose from, 17-50/2.8's with IS/OS/VC (Canon, Sigma and Tamron all make one), Tokina's 11-16/2.8 and also other fast and wide primes - CF cards are still cheaper and faster than SD's - better battery life with an option of a battery grip - more robust - I also use the custom C1, C2 and C3 settings on the dial alot

September 5th, 2010, 03:01 PM	#26
David J. Payne Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Southend-On-Sea, England Posts: 368	Taky, have you experienced the overheating then? Is that with the GH1? How can you tell if a GH1 is hackable before purchasing? I've seen one on ebay that claims to be on 1.3 firmware..?

September 5th, 2010, 07:12 PM	#28
Chris Davis Trustee Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Willmar, MN Posts: 1,400	I have not experience any overheating with my GH1. However, when it starts a new file at 12 minutes (4GB), it misses a half-second or so of material. While that doesn't seem like a big deal, I'm always worried it'll happen over an important word during a presentation or something like that.