The 60D doesn't have autogain audio -- why should the 7D?

[Marc Burleigh]

Well, for me, it's not all doin' high-class videos that you guys do. There's a lot of run 'n' gun news stuff I put out. Mostly I use other cams for that because it's just too finicky with the 7D. But I would like the option at the very least of capturing clean audio without AGC hiss. It may not be as good as separate sound capture, but it will be useable for what I want to do (stick a radio or cable lavalier mike in the camera, or a shotgun).

And Bill... as soon as Canon comes out with a firmware upgrade to give every 5D user a virtual flash, I'll sign on to your e-mail campaign for that. When it comes to AGC, though, Canon is deliberately crippling the 7D while showing that it's not necessary -- nor a savvy marketing ploy -- by allowing 'broadcast-quality' audio on the 5D and the 60D. Now, that's their choice -- but I figure they're a bunch of smart people, they know the amount of fantastic work that is being put out on Vimeo by 7D users. For the sake of a small firmware fix to catch up with a market that has already moved on, well, I think they're just going to have to do it pretty soon. Giving them a nudge, though, won't hurt ;-)

And I don't buy the argument that they'll hold off on the 7D to push us to buy something that doesn't have AGC. I most probably will buy another camera next year, the way they're evolving. It'll certainly have a swing-out LCD, no AGC, audio monitoring via headphones, auto focus while filming and a bunch of other stuff. It will probably even be a Canon given the glass I've started to buy. But I'd feel a little uneasy about buying another Canon camera if they don't uncripple my 7D first -- after all, if they don't fix something they can fix now, why stick with them in the future? Sony and Panasonic have pretty good products, too...

[Steve Oakley]

or just accept the fact that recording audio on the camera is just a reference track / ambient track. you will need to record dual system sound on something thats clock stable... like the DR-680 I did a review on here Tascam DR-680 Review

[Martin Hoybye]

Originally Posted by Alan Halfhill

I have been shooting with my 7D with audio since I bought it in March. I bought the Juicedlink adapter from the start. It works well because you gain level control and headphone monitoring. I loose one channel of sound to tone AGC defeat. I would love to have both channels of sound for two mic interviews. Only manual level in the camera would do this. The AGC is not usable as is.

Does that mean that the Juicedlink adapter only gives Alan one channel of sound, effectively?

I wasn't aware of this. I actually decided on the 7D over the Panasonic 151E (European version of 150), because I was under the impression that I could get two xlrs going in using the JLink. I have a Zoom, but would like the run and gun solution too.

So overriding the AGC takes up one of the audio tracks, or did I not understand Alan's post correctly?

[Alan Halfhill]

Originally Posted by Martin Hoybye

Does that mean that the Juicedlink adapter only gives Alan one channel of sound, effectively?

I wasn't aware of this. I actually decided on the 7D over the Panasonic 151E (European version of 150), because I was under the impression that I could get two xlrs going in using the JLink. I have a Zoom, but would like the run and gun solution too.

So overriding the AGC takes up one of the audio tracks, or did I not understand Alan's post correctly?

Yes, One of the audio channels is being used to spoof the AGC in the camera. You can used both XLR's but only on the other channel in manorial.

[Martin Hoybye]

I see, thanks, Alan.
So what I'd get running, say, a shotgun mic and a lapel mic, to the JLink and then the 7D would be those two tracking on one monotrack. So only one audiotrack in post and no possibility of separating the sources? Hmmm...

[Alan Halfhill]

Originally Posted by Martin Hoybye

I see, thanks, Alan.
So what I'd get running, say, a shotgun mic and a lapel mic, to the JLink and then the 7D would be those two tracking on one monotrack. So only one audiotrack in post and no possibility of separating the sources? Hmmm...

Correct. You do have control of both inputs. This is why I want the 7D fixed like the 5D & 60D.

[Zac Williams]

Total speculation, but I really think Canon is going to release a firmware in the next month or two to add manual gain. It doesn't make sense from a marketing standpoint to have a lower spec camera have this feature and not the 7D. I just ordered a 7D to complement my 5DII.

[Manus Sweeney]

Looking in Amazon UK the 60D and 7D are practically the same price, which also makes no sense!

[John Wiley]

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

95% with horrific results, 4% with average results, 1% with great results. Same as we saw with the DVX, Same as we saw with the Bolex. Only the tool has changed.

I think this is actually mathematically impossible. Statistically, between about 35-65% of results should be average. Ever studied bell curves?

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. In school, whenever the teacher told me my results were 'very ordinary' I used to wonder why it was a problem. Shouldn't that mean that I was performing just as well as most people?

Language is a funny thing.

In regard to the 60d audio, I think it's a bit ridiculous that people are complaining that Canon have finally given us what we've been asking for. They're not a charity, they are a business. They know people want audio control and they know people will pay for it. Therefore they can charge for it and people WILL buy a new camera. It's like people are angry at Canon for progressing their products; what do you expect them to do? Stop all new product r & d and focus entirely on firmware updates for the 7D? I think it's remarkable that they've put manual gain control into a primarily STILLS CAMERA.

[Markus Nord]

I would pay for an update... For me Canon can still get some more money out of us 7D users... And maybe then we would get the update quicker...

[Zach Love]

To me, they've already set a precedent with the 5D mark II with the major firmware upgrade. It took them forever & some guy in his garage beat them to the punch by releasing Magic Lantern, but I still feel that official firmware release from Canon sends a signal that "We're listening & want to keep you happy."

Maybe since Magic Lantern hasn't gotten anything for the 7D it shows us that it would be harder to add this "function" to the 7D than it was to the 5Dii. Still I think that it is more complicated to program in an auto gain control, than it is to program a manual one. So why don't we have it?

I agree that Canon isn't a charity, but do they want to become the next... ... Sony? One thing that I really like about Canon is the plethora of features they put into even their cheapest cameras. As opposed to Sony who has been notorious to pushing Sony proprietary doo-dads every 6 months.

If Canon starts pushing people to buy a new camera every year, then there is a good chance that my next camera won't be a Canon. I want to invest in gear that is going to last longer than I need it to, not invest in gear that becomes a door stop every time Thanksgiving rolls around.

[Michael Wisniewski]

Gee that's funny, never had my cameras magically turn into a doorstop. They seem to keep working right through Thanksgiving, even after a new one has just been released. But you had me worried there so I double checked my 7D and 5D, so far so good, I must be lucky I guess, I dodged that 60D bullet. No doorstops here.

[John Wiley]

Haha don't get too confident Michael... the 60D hasn't even been released yet and once it is, there is still a big chance your 7D will suddenly become useless. Pray for the best!

[Tyler Coscia]

I'm not mad at Canon for "progressing" with the 60d, truthfully the 60d isn't really an upgrade on the photo side. I think they reduced the fps from the 50d, changed the interface on the back panel, a plastic shell, and left the older style auto focus from the 50d as well.

So now, the 60d comes bone stock ready to rock with video enhancing features my 7d has not seen? I feel left out being a 7d owner.... but here is the reality. The 7d is the bastard child that Canon won't allow to have the best of both worlds, likely because it's too inexpensive (-1000 off 5dmkii,) and too close in price (speculating only ~$300 dollars more than 60d) and would be too easy of a decision to make when purchasing a body with all the features for photo/video.

You are supposed to purchase the 60d for video and 7d for photo. That's the best logic I can put together, I know it's not worth a damn. I would sure buy an update though.