Work around the 12 min time limit movie mode

[Taky Cheung]

I have been wanting try shooting weddings or events using DSLR. However, the 12 min time limit will be a major issue to deal with. I currently shot with 2 XH-A1s. One main cam for medium and close up shots. One B-cam at wide most of the time.

So here's my setup plan,

One T2i as main cam. Operate by me.

Two T2i mounted on a rail side by side on tripod as B-roll. My assistant will take turns to record with each with a bit of overlapping time. In that case, I can overcome the continuity issue as well as the heat issue. Then editing will be cutting between these 3 cameras.

What do you guys think about this?

Still deciding between T2i or 7D.

[Perrone Ford]

Might make swapping cards a bit challenging. Also, how are you going to hide the change in perspective going from one camera to the other? A crossfade?

[Taky Cheung]

I'm currently shooting with two XH-A1s on tripod from different angle. B-roll is always at wide shot. The ultimate approach is to have FOUR 7D (or T2i). Two to replace each XH-A1. However, I might just go with 3 for the moment. Just one 7D as main cam. Then two 7Ds as B-roll.

I'm quite tired of capturing with DV tapes...

I asked several people shooting weddings with DSLR. They seem to take a "highlights" approach. Say like, the ceremony chapter is made with several clips put together, not the entire ceremony in full. Since I also do corporate event and press conference, I need to have the entire event captured.

[John Wiley]

If you have qualms with tape, why not replace one of the XH-A1's with a flash camcorder like the Canon HFS20 or even the XF300? Or the upcoming AF-100?

While the DSLR's produce amazing footage, it doesn't make sense to discard all your camcorders just so you can say "I shoot entirely with DSLR's." I know it's good to have all your cameras matching but I'm sure with a bit of tweaking you could get another camcorder to look pretty similar.

No matter how many work arounds you come up with, you can't hide the fact that these cameras were not designed for video. Eventually something will go wrong and you (or the other camera operator) will forget to press record again or both cameras will overheat at the same time or some other freak accident and you will be left wondering why you didn't just stick a little handycam on a tripid in a corner somewhere for backup.

[Taky Cheung]

If I go with DSLR, I will go all the way. I don't want to mix 1920x1080 with HDV 1440x1080. Or I could also use another consumer based cam like the HF cam.. it's just it won't look good to use those at paid job.

But it does come to the challenging part.. since I will be operating the main cam, my assistant will need to be alert at all time to operate the two T2i alternatively. Well, there're all kinds of things could happen at wedding.

This is great discussion =)

[Jose Bucaro]

You could use a Panasonic HMC150 or the Sony NX5U in the back of the church(they are both SDCH memory based) and use the Canon cameras for the close ups? All of those cameras shoot 1920x1080 30P

[Paul Mailath]

why not consider a Panasonic GH1 - no time limit, I get nearly 2 hours of full HD on a 16GB card.

I'm running 2 GH1's and a GF1 for my next wedding.

[Travis Cossel]

Taky, a few thoughts for you on this ...

First, I would say you should consider keeping a continuous-record safety camera around. You can pick up a decent full-HD camcorder for less than $1000; good enough for a safe wide shot. Given the nature of what we're recording, it's just cheap insurance and it does give you another angle to cut to here and there.

It's easy to think that the 12min record limit is the primary issue, but it's not. Part of the issue is also that you won't be used to having to monitor your timecode so strictly. It's very difficult to mentally transition from having 60-90 minutes of continuous recording time to only 12 minutes. It will be on your mind until you're in the middle of the event and then it can be very easy to forget about tracking your timecode. One reason for keeping around a safe cam that has a continuous shot.

Another reason to keep a safe cam around is that you don't get any kind of warning when the 12min time limit is approaching .. or if the camera has stopped recording. If there was an audible warning or an onscreen warning it would be less of an issue. But if you lose track of time it's very easy to look up from the screen and miss that you're not recording anymore. I've nearly done it a few times and my assistants have already done it a few times. Don't fool yourself into thinking that you will just always be really careful and won't make a mistake.

You already mentioned the overheating issue, and that's a definite problem to be aware of. If all you have are 3 DSLR's and they are all overheating at the same time in the middle of a ceremony, you're in big trouble. Again, having that non-DSLR safety cam is well worth the money.

Another thing I wanted to mention is that I hope you aren't looking to get rid of tape to save yourself time and headaches. Recording digital files isn't nirvana. Before we ever switched to 7D's I did a lot of research and realized that once you factor in file transfers, transcoding, and backing up ... moving away from tape saves you no time. Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of what shooting with the 7D's gives us, but it's not going to save you time in the long run.

In my opinion, you should switch to DSLR if you are really sold on the image quality and the low-light abilities. To me, those are the two areas where you really gain an advantage. But trust me, there are A LOT of disadvantages to using DSLR's that could easily make you hate switching to them. Even just simple things like battery time. On our A1's we could pretty much shoot all day on a single large battery. With the 7D's I'm generally switching out after an hour or less. Or consider audio. The onboard mic on the A1 is a pretty nice mic. If you throw a Rode VideoMic on your 7D or T2i you're going to be a bit appalled at the sound, especially if you have IS turned on (you'll actually hear the lens 'grinding'); not to mention now you have to monitor batteries for the mic.

Anyways, I could go on and on about the disadvantages, but I don't want to totally scare you off. I just want you to know that it's big decision to go all DSLR and you better make sure that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages for what you want from the cameras. And again, I would STRONGLY advise you add a continuous-record camera to your mix.

[Taky Cheung]

Originally Posted by Paul Mailath

why not consider a Panasonic GH1 - no time limit, I get nearly 2 hours of full HD on a 16GB card.

I'm running 2 GH1's and a GF1 for my next wedding.

Paul, thanks for the info. I'm actually looking into using 2 panasonic GH1 instead. i understand there is no time limit on video. It only record 1920x1080 24p in 60i wrapper. Is that correct?

thanks

[Michael Ojjeh]

Travis, you pretty much nailed it right on the head, say no more :)

[Philip Hinkle]

Originally Posted by Taky Cheung

If I go with DSLR, I will go all the way. I don't want to mix 1920x1080 with HDV 1440x1080. Or I could also use another consumer based cam like the HF cam.. it's just it won't look good to use those at paid job.

But it does come to the challenging part.. since I will be operating the main cam, my assistant will need to be alert at all time to operate the two T2i alternatively. Well, there're all kinds of things could happen at wedding.

This is great discussion =)

I have 3 A1s and a 7D. I mix the 1440 and 1920 footage. My NLE has no issues with it at all. I wouldn't let that stop you from shooting both together. I have been able to get the colors matched in post between the different cams so they are pretty darn close. Instead of doing the dual 550Ds for cutaway cams why not use an A1 as the back cam and your 550D as the b-roll cam for cutaways. This is what I'm doing. If you want to record the entire ceremony with the 550D and it is one hour long you have to stop and start only 5 times. You will be shooting the whole time so you will know when to restart. Syncing those 5 clips won't take that long. If you never show anyone talking they don't even have to be exactly in sync. Most of my b-roll are crowd closeups, parents, the couple, details etc. The 7D is great for that.

Depending on your NLE of choice you can get a copy of Plural Eyes and it will sync everything up on the timeline thus eliminating the problem of stopping and starting.

Just a few ideas I had.

[Travis Cossel]

Originally Posted by Taky Cheung

Paul, thanks for the info. I'm actually looking into using 2 panasonic GH1 instead. i understand there is no time limit on video. It only record 1920x1080 24p in 60i wrapper. Is that correct?

I've heard the codec used in the GH1 is not very fun to work with. You might do some more research on that end of it before you commit.

[Travis Cossel]

Originally Posted by Michael Ojjeh

Travis, you pretty much nailed it right on the head, say no more :)

Yes sir! d;-)

[Nigel Barker]

Originally Posted by Travis Cossel

Another reason to keep a safe cam around is that you don't get any kind of warning when the 12min time limit is approaching .. or if the camera has stopped recording. If there was an audible warning or an onscreen warning it would be less of an issue. But if you lose track of time it's very easy to look up from the screen and miss that you're not recording anymore. I've nearly done it a few times and my assistants have already done it a few times. Don't fool yourself into thinking that you will just always be really careful and won't make a mistake.

My 5DII displays elapsed recording time. Doesn't the 7D do the same?

[Taky Cheung]

Travis,

I'm now thinking of getting two GH1 since it record 12 minutes increment in each file. Eventually, I might either get three GH1, or two GH1 + one 7D, or one GH1 + two 7D. The 7d will be on steadicam.

I don't use time code to synch., I synch clips by matching wave form. I have been doing that. It isn't difficuult at all.

You are very correct about the time limit being slip out of mind during a stress fun event. Thus.. hoping using GH1 will be a good solutino.

I want to get rid of DV tapes. But that's not the main reason why I go with DSLR. It's the image quality. Getting rid of DV tape is a side bonus.

I shot multiple cam. So for a full day, it would be abotu 16 to 20 tapes. It takes me 3 days to capture.

Batteries will not be a concern to me, as I am selling those batteries. I got them at cheaper price. You can just treat changing battery as changing tape each hour. You don't complain before =)

Sound is another concern. But I have two other solutions to deal with them
Recording Good Sound at Event | L.A. Color Blog
Wireless Mics vs Voice Recorders | L.A. Color Blog