Intermediate?

[Brian Maurer]

I've read that taking the h.264 .mov footage from my T2i and changing it to an intermediate allows for higher quality editing and color correction. Is this true? If so, what steps would one take to do so? I'm working with the WINDOWS version of Adobe Creative Suite 4; hope to upgrade to 5 in a month or so when I can buy the suite from our university (huge employee discount). I've been editing for years, but have very little experience making an intermediate to work with, or using stand alone programs to change the file type (like cineform). Up until now, I've just not needed to do so. I'm a bit lost with it, so any help or thoughts would be helpful. And just in case you need it:

Win 7
8GB RAM
2.53 quad core processor
4850HD video card
CS4

[James Donnelly]

Originally Posted by Brian Maurer

I've read that taking the h.264 .mov footage from my T2i and changing it to an intermediate allows for higher quality editing and color correction. Is this true?

If the chosen intermediate has more colour resolution than the original, then any form of processing of the image will result in less loss of fidelity through rounding, which means if you do multiple processes on a piece of video, the quality will hold up better. You must use an intermediate that employs 4:2:2 colour space, with the additional characteristic that it is able to play back with as little CPU overhead as possible.

Originally Posted by Brian Maurer

If so, what steps would one take to do so? I'm working with the WINDOWS version of Adobe Creative Suite 4; hope to upgrade to 5 in a month or so when I can buy the suite from our university (huge employee discount). I've been editing for years, but have very little experience making an intermediate to work with, or using stand alone programs to change the file type (like cineform). Up until now, I've just not needed to do so. I'm a bit lost with it, so any help or thoughts would be helpful.

If your chosen intermediate is VFW (video for windows) compatible, it will be usable in theory from all windows applications, so you can find your own way to batch process.

On a PC platform (Mac users have Prores)

Cineform:

- good quality (maybe the best because of wavelet interpolation?)
- costs money
- fast encoding speed
- fast playback

DNxHD:

- good quality
- free, yay
- slower encoding speed
- slow playback (CPU hog)

Matrox Mpeg2 i-Frame HD: (new kid on the block):

- good quality
- free, yay
- in-the-middle encoding speed
- fast playback

Originally Posted by Brian Maurer

Win 7
8GB RAM
2.53 quad core processor
4850HD video card
CS4

Easily fast enough to work flawlessly with any of the above codecs, even so, the less CPU bandwidth used to playback the files, the more is available to render your realtime preview with effects turned on.

[Brian Maurer]

Originally Posted by James Donnelly

Cineform:
Cineform

- good quality (maybe the best because of wavelet interpolation?)
- costs money
- fast encoding speed
- fast playback

DNxHD:

- good quality
- free, yay
- slower encoding speed
- slow playback (CPU hog)

Matrox Mpeg2 i-Frame HD: (new kid on the block):

- good quality
- free, yay
- in-the-middle encoding speed
- fast playback

Forgive my beginner level questions:

1) I've looked into Cineform before, and just wasn't sure what to do with it. I think that's because I tried to teach myself this process and of course, that's a terrible way to learn thing correctly. If I went this route, I would use Cineform to change the .mov to .avi? using the Cineform codec instead of H.264? If this is the case, what preset would I use in Adobe Premiere? I've read a few sites that pretty much say to use the HDV setting; other sites seem to indicate that there's a cineform preset that can be installed.

I've looked into DNxHD, and I think the initial reason I shy away from it (for unfamiliar reasons) is that it seemed to indicate a 1440x1080 setting and no 1920x1080. This of course, could be completely wrong.

Just flat out not familiar with Matrox solution.

Let's just assume I go with the Cineform option.... what's the process for my .mov files?

[James Donnelly]

Yes, your understanding is correct. In transcoding your files to Cineform, the container will go from .mov to .avi, and the codec will go from h264 to Cineform.

I am a Vegas user I'm afraid, but your best bet is to get hold of that Cineform project preset. I know they exist for Premiere Pro, but I don't know where to get them for CS4/5. Cineform techinical support have always been very responsive to my enquiries.

The DNxHD options dialog I have worked with is corrupted, so the select box with all the options is off screen. You have to tab to it or click the tiny bit that's visible. Yes it does support 1080p.

If you choose Cineform (if you have the money, great choice), use the Neoscene app to convert the originals, then start a new Premiere project using the installed template discussed earlier.

[Brian Maurer]

What research I've done so far seems to just imply that I need to create a preset. I'm on the adobe forums right now, seeing what they suggest. It'd be wonderful not to have to render the video each time I bring something new into Premiere. Of course, it's really no different than doing the telecine here. I've not used CS5 yet, but I hear they have native support for these cameras (5D, 7D, 550D); any word on how well that works? Or is it still far better to go to an intermediate like this?

[James Donnelly]

It depends on what you are aiming for. If quality is critical and you plan on doing much post processing, colour correction etc, you would definitely choose to use an intermediate format.

For most applications, it is not necessary. Many people on here seem to want to avoid it because they don't like the inconvenience of the initial transcode. The thinking seems to be that if it edits smoothly on your machine without transcoding, then all is good.

Personally I prefer to use an intermediate because even though I'm an amateur, I want to use a professional workflow to get the best results. As I mentioned, I also appreciate that more CPU horsepower goes on generating a decent quality preview, rather than struggling to edit a format which is not designed to be edited.

[Brian Maurer]

Well, got the NeoScene trial, installed, loaded up a file, hit convert and it crashes. Every time. Not sure what the problem is. But certainly a letdown. Windows 7, you were doing so well!

[Dylan Morgan]

It's not windows 7. I Run Neoscene on both my laptop and PC with Windows 7 without any problems. It's your computer.

[Hale Nanthan]

I have a Canon 7D. You won't want to edit with Native Canon EOS 7D MOV files, most CPU's bottleneck when scrubbing through these files on a timeline. It's very CPU intensive and not really meant for editing. If you don't mind spending a few 100+ $, then look into Cineform Neoscene. This is an awesome 4:2:2 codec that's much less processor intensive on NLE's. I gave it up. At last, i found a blog by google:
Solution for editing H.264/MOV footages shot by Canon EOS 7D?550D camera » Camcorder Video Share

I really liked how the trial version provided full access to the functions of the software. It allowed me to test the conversion quality. I knew without a doubt that the software will work for me, so I was not hesitant to purchase it at all. I paid 35USD.

[Uwe Hansen]

Originally Posted by James Donnelly

...

Matrox Mpeg2 i-Frame HD: (new kid on the block):

- good quality
- free, yay
- in-the-middle encoding speed
- fast playback
....

I just downloaded the codecs from this site: http://www.matrox.com/video/de/suppo...es/version1.0/ But how can I convert to it? I gave Procoder + PP CS5 a go, but I didn´t find any option to transcode to that codec. So please, could anybody describe the workflow for transcoding?