Concerns over upgrading to T2i at DVinfo.net

Michael Herrick · June 10th, 2010, 01:41 PM

Hi, I am looking into upgrading to a rebel t2i from my 2-3 year old canon hv20. I love the shallow dof, and just the overall image quality of the t2i. I have a few concerns that i was hoping people can address from experience. I mostly shoot action sports like mountain biking, motocross, etc. I am just really concerned over the lack of good auto focus, and the lack of electrical zoom. Does anyone have any experience shooting fast moving objects with the t2i? is it hard to keep focus and is it hard to zoom? I really like the 60p feature of the t2i also, i think it would really make my slomo shots look a lot smoother. do you guys think i would be better off with getting a more traditional camcorder over the t2i because i shoot sports and fast moving objects? i really like the hmc150, but its price is hard to justify when i think a lot of videos taken with the t2i look better. what do you guys recommend?

Jon Fairhurst · June 10th, 2010, 02:51 PM

I think it depends on the style that you want to achieve.

If you shoot up close and wide for an extreme sports look - or far away, with a long lens, on a tripod, with the action moving across the screen, DvSLRs work great. If you can learn to be artistically out of focus, it can add a lot to your style and it lets you rescue shots that a pure-focus guy can't use. Use medium shots for interviews. Put on a fisheye and get in the middle of the action and you can pretty much throw the camera around without worries about rolling shutter.

The 5D2 is a bit better for action sports because of the choice of wide lenses. The 7D is a bit better than the t2i for its rugged, water resistant body. But with the right lenses and care, the T2i can work too.

In daylight, you can stop down the lens so focusing isn't as hard. And do you really need live zooms? They're harder without electronic control and can suffer from focus shift problems.

On the other hand, if you want a more authentic, YouTube style, go for a traditional camcorder, handheld, including zooms. A DvSLR allows more artistry and can give a dreamlike quality. A traditional camcorder can give more of a this-really-happened, documentary feel. I don't mean to judge one as better than the other. It all comes down to the style that you want to deliver.

BTW, the lenses I would choose as an action sports, T2i shooter would be the Tokina 11-17 for getting close to the action, and as nice a long zoom as you can afford for the more distant stuff. To that, add a fast 50mm prime for interviews and the occasional night shot. And don't forget a really good tripod for the long lens.

Chris Barcellos · June 10th, 2010, 03:29 PM

I am a HV20 and 5D user, who just recently bought the T2i. I am not shooting much in the way of the kind of stuff you are talking about these days, but having shot motocross still with a 2 1/4 cameras many years back, I have some background to draw from.

First of all, with the kit 18-55mm, you actually get a lens that can be decent for this type of shooting. It does have stabilization on board, and the auto focus is reasonably fast and accurate in well lit situations. It also auto focuses better than the 5D, given new auto focus technology on board. You will have to prefocus to the area you are going to capture action in, and you won't be able to capture focus on a fast moving object. But then again, most good film makers don't rely on autofocus to be there at those critical moments anyway. And owning an HV20, I know you can't expect that with that group camera either.

I did do a brief shoot last year at a drag strip, I also had my FX 1 at that shoot, and while it was easier to shoot the FX1, I loved what I got from the 5D at my station right at the starting line.

The T2i is a much lighter camera than the 5D or 7D, and from that perspective you can put it places even the other two might not go, and making it easier to hang onto with a long day of shoulder mount shooting if that is our preference. One of the Hoodman type LCD viewers is recommended for should mount, though, to aid in on the go manual focus adjustments.

James Donnelly · June 10th, 2010, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Herrick

Hi, I am looking into upgrading to a rebel t2i from my 2-3 year old canon hv20. I love the shallow dof, and just the overall image quality of the t2i. I have a few concerns that i was hoping people can address from experience. I mostly shoot action sports like mountain biking, motocross, etc. I am just really concerned over the lack of good auto focus, and the lack of electrical zoom. Does anyone have any experience shooting fast moving objects with the t2i? is it hard to keep focus and is it hard to zoom? I really like the 60p feature of the t2i also, i think it would really make my slomo shots look a lot smoother. do you guys think i would be better off with getting a more traditional camcorder over the t2i because i shoot sports and fast moving objects? i really like the hmc150, but its price is hard to justify when i think a lot of videos taken with the t2i look better. what do you guys recommend?

Personally I think an HV20 is better suited to what you are trying to shoot. Achieving a tracking focus shot on the t2i is possible, but takes much practice, and definitely a loupe. It's a real skill.

Yes you can close the iris for more DOF, but then you are sacrificing one of it's selling points, and you still don't get auto focus like you do on th HV20.

I'm only an amateur, but I prefer to use my camcorder (HF100) for anything fast moving outdoors. The rolling shutter is much worse on the t2i for fast pans.

Why don't you keep the HV20 and buy the t2i on top? I am really happy I kept the HF100, but I LOVE the images I get from the t2i for indoor stuff and controlled shots.

Michael Herrick · June 10th, 2010, 11:56 PM

i really just cant see myself using 2 cameras, i don't have a lot of variety in what i shoot. its either gunna be shooting sports stuff like that, or the occasional interview. i know the hv20 is probably better at shooting that kind of stuff, i am just not happy with its picture quality, every time i see something shot on a dslr, i get jealous. i was just wondering if it i could live with the issues that the t2i has for shooting fast moving objects, or are the skills that are required to shoot them not worth my time and effort to perfect?

Sam Kanter · June 11th, 2010, 12:15 AM

No one can really answer your question definitivly. Bite the bullet and try the T2i. If it doesn't work for you, sell it.

Michael Herrick · June 11th, 2010, 08:23 AM

hmm thats good advice, i could always return it to the store fairly easily i guess also

Matt Davis · June 11th, 2010, 11:20 AM

Face up to the reality here: you are going to have several cameras at the end of this journey.

You're going to keep your HV20 for a bunch of stuff (mostly when you need to grab handheld post-action interviews when the Optical Image Stabilisation is REALLY handy, as is the auto focus, whilst you're plugging in an external clip-on mic for superior quality.

You're going to have the T2i for those beauty shots, 720/60 slomo shots, impossible wides, all that video DSLR goodness but without the hassle of investing in extra sound kit to do sync sound.

You simply cannot get away from the fact that owning a GoPro Hero HD is going to be on your cards. How could you not?

And then you're going to pine for an EX1 or something similar, then your T2i will die because of the weather proofing, so you upgrade to the 7D, and the HV20 is relegated to the back shelf whilst you balance the 7D, EX1 and GoPro. All of which is financed with the correct proportion of your videos' income syphoned off into your 'toy' budget.

It's the way it goes...

Jon Fairhurst · June 11th, 2010, 01:56 PM

But it really depends on the style doesn't it? For a documentary or YouTube look, you want a small chip camcorder. For an artistic look you want a DvSLR. But you don't necessarily want to intercut them if you want a consistent style for a given project.

On the other hand, if could be really nice to intercut the two looks if you use a "torn up" editing style - use a dreamy look here, an old-time TV look there, black and white with lots of film grain there.

Regarding handheld interviews, you can definitely use a DvSLR, but the look will be very different from the HV20 look. Check out Phillip Bloom's Venice's People as an example.

It all comes down to the style that you want to deliver.

Michael Herrick · June 15th, 2010, 10:27 AM

i definitely like the artistic style that the dslr shoots. my hv20 has some problems with audio, because it blew over on the tripod in the wind while the mic was plug in and it landed right on the connection, so now it only records to the left channel, which i just duplicate in post and add to the right channel, but i don't think it sounds as good anymore, maybe im imagining things here. also, i am not getting paid currently to make videos, its just a hobby of mine, so i don't really have a lot to spend on cameras, but i would like to make a career out of it, so i dont know

Matt Davis · June 15th, 2010, 10:49 AM

Quote:

so now it only records to the left channel, which i just duplicate in post and add to the right channel, but i don't think it sounds as good anymore, maybe im imagining things here.

If you only have the 'left' side of a recording, I'd suggest making it mono and setting the pan to be centre (or however your NLE wants to do it). Funny things can happen with just 'doubling up'. Thickening can turn into thinning if there's an issue somewhere.

Chris Barcellos · June 15th, 2010, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Herrick

i really just cant see myself using 2 cameras, i don't have a lot of variety in what i shoot. its either gunna be shooting sports stuff like that, or the occasional interview. i know the hv20 is probably better at shooting that kind of stuff, i am just not happy with its picture quality, every time i see something shot on a dslr, i get jealous. i was just wondering if it i could live with the issues that the t2i has for shooting fast moving objects, or are the skills that are required to shoot them not worth my time and effort to perfect?

Yes you can.

Chris Barcellos · June 15th, 2010, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Herrick

i really just cant see myself using 2 cameras, i don't have a lot of variety in what i shoot. its either gunna be shooting sports stuff like that, or the occasional interview. i know the hv20 is probably better at shooting that kind of stuff, i am just not happy with its picture quality, every time i see something shot on a dslr, i get jealous. i was just wondering if it i could live with the issues that the t2i has for shooting fast moving objects, or are the skills that are required to shoot them not worth my time and effort to perfect?

Yes you can do it. I have no doubt. You may want to get an LCD finder, or even a monitor for tripod shooting, but it is doable. You have to willing to accept some limitations and issues, and work around things, and you will be greatly rewarded.

Michael Herrick · June 15th, 2010, 12:28 PM

i guess the main things i need are probably a follow focus, and defitley some sort of view finder to help with focus, what are the best aftermarket lcd viewfinder loupes or what ever you call them?

Khoi Pham · June 15th, 2010, 12:51 PM

You will be fine with the T2i for sport and stuff like that, you will need something like a Zacuto Z-finder to help you focus, take a look at this video

there are plenty like that on the internet, if he can do it you can do it, just need practice and know how.

June 10th, 2010, 01:41 PM	#1
Michael Herrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, California Posts: 108	Concerns over upgrading to T2i Hi, I am looking into upgrading to a rebel t2i from my 2-3 year old canon hv20. I love the shallow dof, and just the overall image quality of the t2i. I have a few concerns that i was hoping people can address from experience. I mostly shoot action sports like mountain biking, motocross, etc. I am just really concerned over the lack of good auto focus, and the lack of electrical zoom. Does anyone have any experience shooting fast moving objects with the t2i? is it hard to keep focus and is it hard to zoom? I really like the 60p feature of the t2i also, i think it would really make my slomo shots look a lot smoother. do you guys think i would be better off with getting a more traditional camcorder over the t2i because i shoot sports and fast moving objects? i really like the hmc150, but its price is hard to justify when i think a lot of videos taken with the t2i look better. what do you guys recommend?

June 10th, 2010, 02:51 PM	#2
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	I think it depends on the style that you want to achieve. If you shoot up close and wide for an extreme sports look - or far away, with a long lens, on a tripod, with the action moving across the screen, DvSLRs work great. If you can learn to be artistically out of focus, it can add a lot to your style and it lets you rescue shots that a pure-focus guy can't use. Use medium shots for interviews. Put on a fisheye and get in the middle of the action and you can pretty much throw the camera around without worries about rolling shutter. The 5D2 is a bit better for action sports because of the choice of wide lenses. The 7D is a bit better than the t2i for its rugged, water resistant body. But with the right lenses and care, the T2i can work too. In daylight, you can stop down the lens so focusing isn't as hard. And do you really need live zooms? They're harder without electronic control and can suffer from focus shift problems. On the other hand, if you want a more authentic, YouTube style, go for a traditional camcorder, handheld, including zooms. A DvSLR allows more artistry and can give a dreamlike quality. A traditional camcorder can give more of a this-really-happened, documentary feel. I don't mean to judge one as better than the other. It all comes down to the style that you want to deliver. BTW, the lenses I would choose as an action sports, T2i shooter would be the Tokina 11-17 for getting close to the action, and as nice a long zoom as you can afford for the more distant stuff. To that, add a fast 50mm prime for interviews and the occasional night shot. And don't forget a really good tripod for the long lens. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

June 10th, 2010, 03:29 PM	#3
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	I am a HV20 and 5D user, who just recently bought the T2i. I am not shooting much in the way of the kind of stuff you are talking about these days, but having shot motocross still with a 2 1/4 cameras many years back, I have some background to draw from. First of all, with the kit 18-55mm, you actually get a lens that can be decent for this type of shooting. It does have stabilization on board, and the auto focus is reasonably fast and accurate in well lit situations. It also auto focuses better than the 5D, given new auto focus technology on board. You will have to prefocus to the area you are going to capture action in, and you won't be able to capture focus on a fast moving object. But then again, most good film makers don't rely on autofocus to be there at those critical moments anyway. And owning an HV20, I know you can't expect that with that group camera either. I did do a brief shoot last year at a drag strip, I also had my FX 1 at that shoot, and while it was easier to shoot the FX1, I loved what I got from the 5D at my station right at the starting line. The T2i is a much lighter camera than the 5D or 7D, and from that perspective you can put it places even the other two might not go, and making it easier to hang onto with a long day of shoulder mount shooting if that is our preference. One of the Hoodman type LCD viewers is recommended for should mount, though, to aid in on the go manual focus adjustments. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

June 11th, 2010, 11:20 AM	#8
Matt Davis Trustee Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Berkshire, UK Posts: 1,562	Face up to the reality here: you are going to have several cameras at the end of this journey. You're going to keep your HV20 for a bunch of stuff (mostly when you need to grab handheld post-action interviews when the Optical Image Stabilisation is REALLY handy, as is the auto focus, whilst you're plugging in an external clip-on mic for superior quality. You're going to have the T2i for those beauty shots, 720/60 slomo shots, impossible wides, all that video DSLR goodness but without the hassle of investing in extra sound kit to do sync sound. You simply cannot get away from the fact that owning a GoPro Hero HD is going to be on your cards. How could you not? And then you're going to pine for an EX1 or something similar, then your T2i will die because of the weather proofing, so you upgrade to the 7D, and the HV20 is relegated to the back shelf whilst you balance the 7D, EX1 and GoPro. All of which is financed with the correct proportion of your videos' income syphoned off into your 'toy' budget. It's the way it goes... __________________ Director/Editor - MDMA Ltd: Write, Shoot, Edit, Publish - mattdavis.pro EX1 x2, C100 --> FCPX & PPro6

June 11th, 2010, 01:56 PM	#9
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	But it really depends on the style doesn't it? For a documentary or YouTube look, you want a small chip camcorder. For an artistic look you want a DvSLR. But you don't necessarily want to intercut them if you want a consistent style for a given project. On the other hand, if could be really nice to intercut the two looks if you use a "torn up" editing style - use a dreamy look here, an old-time TV look there, black and white with lots of film grain there. Regarding handheld interviews, you can definitely use a DvSLR, but the look will be very different from the HV20 look. Check out Phillip Bloom's Venice's People as an example. It all comes down to the style that you want to deliver. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

June 10th, 2010, 11:56 PM	#5
Michael Herrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, California Posts: 108	i really just cant see myself using 2 cameras, i don't have a lot of variety in what i shoot. its either gunna be shooting sports stuff like that, or the occasional interview. i know the hv20 is probably better at shooting that kind of stuff, i am just not happy with its picture quality, every time i see something shot on a dslr, i get jealous. i was just wondering if it i could live with the issues that the t2i has for shooting fast moving objects, or are the skills that are required to shoot them not worth my time and effort to perfect?

June 11th, 2010, 12:15 AM	#6
Sam Kanter Major Player Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: New York Posts: 205	No one can really answer your question definitivly. Bite the bullet and try the T2i. If it doesn't work for you, sell it.

June 11th, 2010, 08:23 AM	#7
Michael Herrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, California Posts: 108	hmm thats good advice, i could always return it to the store fairly easily i guess also

June 15th, 2010, 10:27 AM	#10
Michael Herrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, California Posts: 108	i definitely like the artistic style that the dslr shoots. my hv20 has some problems with audio, because it blew over on the tripod in the wind while the mic was plug in and it landed right on the connection, so now it only records to the left channel, which i just duplicate in post and add to the right channel, but i don't think it sounds as good anymore, maybe im imagining things here. also, i am not getting paid currently to make videos, its just a hobby of mine, so i don't really have a lot to spend on cameras, but i would like to make a career out of it, so i dont know

June 15th, 2010, 12:28 PM	#14
Michael Herrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, California Posts: 108	i guess the main things i need are probably a follow focus, and defitley some sort of view finder to help with focus, what are the best aftermarket lcd viewfinder loupes or what ever you call them?

June 15th, 2010, 12:51 PM	#15
Khoi Pham Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas Posts: 747	You will be fine with the T2i for sport and stuff like that, you will need something like a Zacuto Z-finder to help you focus, take a look at this video A Day at Del Valle MX" (A Proof / Heli Video Short) on Vimeo there are plenty like that on the internet, if he can do it you can do it, just need practice and know how. __________________ Khoi Pham www.proeditproductions.com