First Impressions... Not So Hot!

William Boehm · March 30th, 2010, 11:32 AM

moday, koi thanks for your input..yes i could take stills with my nikon system, then import into vegas...but i have filmed lots of areas with movement..harlequin ducks on a river, various shots of the ocean surf pounding in on the olympic coast, se alaska..movement with sea otters in rolling waves..all areas that would be prone to aliasing? i just might go the newer vixia, or wait for the nam that might announce the new canon xha1 solid state? i am also concerned about weight as i backpack in remote areas..even tho i am an old guy.

thanks for steering me away from the canon rebel and dslr's...almost made a huge mistake.

Michiel van Baasbank · March 30th, 2010, 11:35 AM

Also read this thread, David:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eo...shoot-t2i.html

There's more mentioning that the T2i is not so sharp in terms of resolution, and aliasing and moire are also big issues. However, there is more or less agreement that the 5D/7D/T2i can produce stunning cinematic looks when handled correctly and using the best glass.

I do not own a T2i, I'm not sure about buying a 35mm adapter or just go for the T2i, but if you're chasing after the cinematic look, these DSLR(s) are the best you get for the price.

Colin Rowe · March 31st, 2010, 05:38 AM

Dont agree that the kit lens is rubbish, it perfectly useable, yes I know that its the bottom of the pile. Simply invest in something like a Rotolight. I dont know of any video shot in low light, that does not require additional lighting. You need light to get a good shot, just as you need a good set of mics for good sound, or a tripod for steady shots. These cameras are exceptional for low light shooting, but surely to shoot without the help of additional lighting, when needed, is counter productive

Alex Sava · March 31st, 2010, 06:24 AM

I just got my 550D and played around with the kit lens in low light, and I'm very happy with the result. I know I have much to learn AND much to spend on lenses but the idea is, it's not that bad. I'm definitely impressed. I'm also happy my computer handles the raw video files quite well in Premiere.

Michael Liebergot · March 31st, 2010, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin Rowe

Dont agree that the kit lens is rubbish, it perfectly useable, yes I know that its the bottom of the pile. Simply invest in something like a Rotolight. I dont know of any video shot in low light, that does not require additional lighting. You need light to get a good shot, just as you need a good set of mics for good sound, or a tripod for steady shots. These cameras are exceptional for low light shooting, but surely to shoot without the help of additional lighting, when needed, is counter productive

Here, here, right on the money.
After all photography is really painting with light.

I think if you're in a remote setting, such as a bar filming a band then you'll most likely not use an onboard light.

But if you're in the field shooting events, such as wedding receptions, which are notoriously dark almost cave like in some instances, you'll at least use an on camera light for fill lighting. I prefer off camera lighting, which is easy to setup.

And if you're doing a studio shot, then you should always use lighting, either available (window) or setup, when possible.

David St. Juskow · March 31st, 2010, 09:47 AM

Well, we have to remember that everyone has different needs and aesthetics, yet we are all using the same camera here. I can understand why you'd say "use more lighting" but frankly, I hate using any light that isn't naturally occurring. When shooting narrative film, you have to light the set because there's no other way to get exposure- that I get, and a whole art form has developed because of it. But the greatest contribution digital video has given us, or, at least, me, is the freedom from having to light a scene, and instead using the little amount of light there is to it's own advantage. It gives me and the actors or action total mobility, shrinks the crew down to 2 (or 1) person(s), etc. etc. That's just my thing, and that's what I was hoping to do with the rebel- I assumed that these cameras are only going to get better in low light, so my experience with all sorts of DV and HDV cameras had set my expectations higher for the t2i with kit lens. For me, adding a camera light is not a solution because that completely ruins the shot for me. I realize that's not the case for weddings. Since most DV cameras have a fixed lens that is really no better than the rebel's kit lens, I did expect better results. But that was literally my first impression, and I gave it just to get some feedback from folks. I'm sure in the weeks ahead I'll learn to get the best image out of that "garbage" lens, and then even better shots with "good" lenses.

Euisung Lee · March 31st, 2010, 12:48 PM

'kit lens' and 'low light' don't go well together. Although even at f3.5 T2i sees better in dark than my HV20 f1.8 at 1/50 shutter, with the slow lens you cannot expect so much against the law of physics. I just tried out my friend's f1.2 50mm and the difference is quite literally night and day and I now know that the extra 5x amount of light is worth about $1200.

Robert Turchick · March 31st, 2010, 09:54 PM

the 1.4 50mm from Canon is pretty amazing in low light too and $350

Michael Liebergot · April 1st, 2010, 07:47 AM

Quote:

the 1.4 50mm from Canon is pretty amazing in low light too and $350

The only thing to remember about the 50mm lens on a cropped sensor such as the 7D/550D, is that your lens will multiply by 1.6. So a 50mm becomes an 80mm lens.

I prefer a lens of 28-30mm for a cropped sensor which gives me a focal length of 45-48mm. Which is better for tight in shots and enable you to hold focus a little betetr with large apertures like 1.4.

Also remember, that while having 1.4-1.8 for low light is great, your focal length especially with a cropped 50mm lens which is now 80mm, will be very slim.
So while you have great DOF your subject can easily fall out of focus with little movement fore or aft. Best range for shooting constant video is 4.0-5.6 which lets you keep your subject in focus much easier. But the downside is that you lose a lot of light.

This is why I love these lenses for photo work, but find them very difficult for video. Wide apertures are great for stunning DOF photos, but hard to shoot a moving subject with video.

That is unless you decide to shoot like they do a lot in movies where subjects are walking towards the camera, coming from out of focus to in focus.

This being said I do love the low light ability of a 1.4-1.8 lens for certain wow shots. Just not for every day.

Khoi Pham · April 1st, 2010, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Liebergot

The only thing to remember about the 50mm lens on a cropped sensor such as the 7D/550D, is that your lens will multiply by 1.6. So a 50mm becomes an 80mm lens.

I prefer a lens of 28-30mm for a cropped sensor which gives me a focal length of 45-48mm. Which is better for tight in shots and enable you to hold focus a little betetr with large apertures like 1.4.

Also remember, that while having 1.4-1.8 for low light is great, your focal length especially with a cropped 50mm lens which is now 80mm, will be very slim.
So while you have great DOF your subject can easily fall out of focus with little movement fore or aft. Best range for shooting constant video is 4.0-5.6 which lets you keep your subject in focus much easier. But the downside is that you lose a lot of light.

This is why I love these lenses for photo work, but find them very difficult for video. Wide apertures are great for stunning DOF photos, but hard to shoot a moving subject with video.

That is unless you decide to shoot like they do a lot in movies where subjects are walking towards the camera, coming from out of focus to in focus.

This being said I do love the low light ability of a 1.4-1.8 lens for certain wow shots. Just not for every day.

For me and my line of work, shooting at F1.4 is everyday lens, you just have to practice focusing, at 1 minute of this video

you see a trumpet walking toward me and it stay focus, I practice this a lot at home before going out shooting for money with my as some would call it "toy". (-:

Michael Liebergot · April 1st, 2010, 08:20 AM

Koi, true practice makes perfect and one really has to learn how to pull focus (like film) with these cameras.

Overall in the short time I have been using DSLRs again, I did used to shoot film photography long time ago, it has made me much better with my video camera shooting.

One thing of note though, is that you were using a 30mm lens on your 7D, which as I mentioned above make sit easier to hold focus with since it's a much wider lens than running a 50mm on a 7D/550D.

BTW, great colors and imagery in your footage. As well as the audio. I take it that audio was captured off camera?

March 31st, 2010, 05:38 AM	#33
Colin Rowe Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cornwall UK Posts: 793	Dont agree that the kit lens is rubbish, it perfectly useable, yes I know that its the bottom of the pile. Simply invest in something like a Rotolight. I dont know of any video shot in low light, that does not require additional lighting. You need light to get a good shot, just as you need a good set of mics for good sound, or a tripod for steady shots. These cameras are exceptional for low light shooting, but surely to shoot without the help of additional lighting, when needed, is counter productive __________________ Colin

March 31st, 2010, 09:54 PM	#38
Robert Turchick Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 1,389	the 1.4 50mm from Canon is pretty amazing in low light too and $350 __________________ The older I get, the better I was!

April 1st, 2010, 08:20 AM	#41
Michael Liebergot Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,505	Koi, true practice makes perfect and one really has to learn how to pull focus (like film) with these cameras. Overall in the short time I have been using DSLRs again, I did used to shoot film photography long time ago, it has made me much better with my video camera shooting. One thing of note though, is that you were using a 30mm lens on your 7D, which as I mentioned above make sit easier to hold focus with since it's a much wider lens than running a 50mm on a 7D/550D. BTW, great colors and imagery in your footage. As well as the audio. I take it that audio was captured off camera? __________________ Michael www.lvpvideo.com

March 30th, 2010, 11:32 AM	#31
William Boehm Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bothell, Washington Posts: 195	moday, koi thanks for your input..yes i could take stills with my nikon system, then import into vegas...but i have filmed lots of areas with movement..harlequin ducks on a river, various shots of the ocean surf pounding in on the olympic coast, se alaska..movement with sea otters in rolling waves..all areas that would be prone to aliasing? i just might go the newer vixia, or wait for the nam that might announce the new canon xha1 solid state? i am also concerned about weight as i backpack in remote areas..even tho i am an old guy. thanks for steering me away from the canon rebel and dslr's...almost made a huge mistake.

March 30th, 2010, 11:35 AM	#32
Michiel van Baasbank Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 63	Also read this thread, David: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eo...shoot-t2i.html There's more mentioning that the T2i is not so sharp in terms of resolution, and aliasing and moire are also big issues. However, there is more or less agreement that the 5D/7D/T2i can produce stunning cinematic looks when handled correctly and using the best glass. I do not own a T2i, I'm not sure about buying a 35mm adapter or just go for the T2i, but if you're chasing after the cinematic look, these DSLR(s) are the best you get for the price.

March 31st, 2010, 06:24 AM	#34
Alex Sava Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 37	I just got my 550D and played around with the kit lens in low light, and I'm very happy with the result. I know I have much to learn AND much to spend on lenses but the idea is, it's not that bad. I'm definitely impressed. I'm also happy my computer handles the raw video files quite well in Premiere.

March 31st, 2010, 09:47 AM	#36
David St. Juskow Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: new york city Posts: 113	Well, we have to remember that everyone has different needs and aesthetics, yet we are all using the same camera here. I can understand why you'd say "use more lighting" but frankly, I hate using any light that isn't naturally occurring. When shooting narrative film, you have to light the set because there's no other way to get exposure- that I get, and a whole art form has developed because of it. But the greatest contribution digital video has given us, or, at least, me, is the freedom from having to light a scene, and instead using the little amount of light there is to it's own advantage. It gives me and the actors or action total mobility, shrinks the crew down to 2 (or 1) person(s), etc. etc. That's just my thing, and that's what I was hoping to do with the rebel- I assumed that these cameras are only going to get better in low light, so my experience with all sorts of DV and HDV cameras had set my expectations higher for the t2i with kit lens. For me, adding a camera light is not a solution because that completely ruins the shot for me. I realize that's not the case for weddings. Since most DV cameras have a fixed lens that is really no better than the rebel's kit lens, I did expect better results. But that was literally my first impression, and I gave it just to get some feedback from folks. I'm sure in the weeks ahead I'll learn to get the best image out of that "garbage" lens, and then even better shots with "good" lenses.

March 31st, 2010, 12:48 PM	#37
Euisung Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 57	'kit lens' and 'low light' don't go well together. Although even at f3.5 T2i sees better in dark than my HV20 f1.8 at 1/50 shutter, with the slow lens you cannot expect so much against the law of physics. I just tried out my friend's f1.2 50mm and the difference is quite literally night and day and I now know that the extra 5x amount of light is worth about $1200.