thinking about this rig for my 7D at DVinfo.net

Steve Witt · March 25th, 2010, 02:31 PM

I'm considering this rig for my 7D very soon. Its the one that appeals to me the most so far of all the ones I've seen out there. It looks awesome and it seems to be very well planned & thought out.

Lewis Parrish-Hills · March 25th, 2010, 07:03 PM

Steve, while testing some HD-DSLR's on the set of 24, Keifer Sutherland (Jack Bauer) said that he did not feel comfortable performing seriously infront of such a small camera, as he is more used to acting for large cine style cameras (Think matte boxes, shoulder rigs, monitors and all the other bells and whistles)

As such the size and presence of a camera is now subject to the affectionately named 'Keifer test'; whether it's presence is large enough for him to be comfortable to act infront of it!

For example, a handheld 7D with a little 50mm lens would certainly not pass the Keifer Test! however, a shoulder mounted rig with a large tele lens, matte box infront of it, hot shoe mounted mic and an external monitor on the rails would have far more presence, passing the Keifer Test!

As for the rig itself, it's hands down the nicest looking 7d cine rig I have seen. Excellent work by those guys at cinevate!

Steve Witt · March 25th, 2010, 07:21 PM

So the camera's presence in front of the actors (ie; Kiefer Sutherland), is apparently almost as important as the actor's presence in front of the camera. One of these cinema-tool companies should name their most ultimate DSLR rig package "The Kiefer". Too Funny!

Alex Sava · March 25th, 2010, 10:37 PM

Lewis, are you sure it happened with dSLR cameras? I thought he just distinctly asked for a matte box on his cameras cause he can't act without them. Never heard anything of actual dSLRs and thought this joke about passing "The Kiefer Test" has been around for a while.

I could be wrong.

Anyways, I use it as a means of saying how good a rig looks. I know it's all about being useful, but I can't help but appreciate how aesthetically pleasing some rigs look... Thus they pass "The Kiefer Test" :D

Charles Papert · March 26th, 2010, 12:51 AM

That would be not particularly comfortable to operate handheld for any length of time, as all the weight is born on the arms. Good for fast-paced, running-type shots as the arms will act as a shock absorber, but when doing more classic handheld, fatigue will show up in the shots fairly quickly, especially when working longer lens.

Also, this would preclude the use of outboard monitoring away from the camera, except when mounted on sticks, with onboard monitor added and some flavor of signal splitter (HDMI or HD-SDI convertor).

If neither of these is an issue, this is a nice design.

Cody Dulock · March 26th, 2010, 07:59 AM

I have been using a redrock captain stubling with the microbrace body pad. Less fatigue with the gun stock type support and the stubling setup allows for easy use of the follow focus and camera controls. I position my right hand grip closer to the body of the camera so I can zoom in to get focus and hit records or change whatever settings are necessary. I have also been using that same thing into a single rod configuration if I want to go run n gun. Pretty sweet little rig with a lot of versatility.

I have no experience with that particular cinevate rig so I cannot really comment. It looks like it works for what that guy is doing, but you should really be trying to figure out what kind of shooting you will be doing so you can make a rig that matches your shooting style/needs.

How do you plan on shooting and maybe we can help you out?

Carlo Zanella · March 26th, 2010, 11:11 AM

That's the point! We do mainly field production, and speed is essential. The rig we use allows you to slide the matte box back and forth very quickly (just loosen an easily reachable screw at the bottom of the rails and the matte box is loose - Chrosziel).
We change focal lenght VERY often, and our system makes it easy. I love the Cinevate's swing out design, but if you have filters on the matte, when you close it you still need to re-adjust the position of the matte in front of the lens. I think the Cinevate is the best rig I have seen so far: versatile, looks very well built. But I see it more as I rig for "filmaking", where you have more time to set up, change lenses etc. Field prod sometimes can be pretty fast paced, you may just use one lens, and, as you all will probably say "get a dedicated videocam for that purpose", sometimes we still like to be able to shoot with the color, look, and depth of field of an HDSLR.

Cinevate, very nice design though!

Carlo Zanella
The Santa Fe TV Show

Cody Dulock · March 26th, 2010, 12:10 PM

For situations where I use a matte box, follow focus, and other accessories, being fast is essential (like Carlo said)! I use the redrock matte box and is super simple to swing away and move it back and forth to adjust for different focal lengths via the rods on the side.

I do mainly event/field production work and speed is essential as well (as it is on any set). But I configure my rigs a lot different than this guy, but I usually reconfigure them depending on the situation or shoot I'm on. With that being said, there is no one rig fits all. What works for that guy in the video may not work for Steve. That's why it's important to figure out what you will be using it for (IMO).

Steve Witt · March 27th, 2010, 08:47 PM

Yes I think this will be the rig that I will eventually get...only thing missing is the Z-Finder.

March 25th, 2010, 02:31 PM	#1
Steve Witt Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: kentucky, USA Posts: 429	thinking about this rig for my 7D I'm considering this rig for my 7D very soon. Its the one that appeals to me the most so far of all the ones I've seen out there. It looks awesome and it seems to be very well planned & thought out. Cinevate Core DSLR Package on Vimeo Last edited by Steve Witt; March 25th, 2010 at 06:42 PM.

March 26th, 2010, 12:51 AM	#5
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	That would be not particularly comfortable to operate handheld for any length of time, as all the weight is born on the arms. Good for fast-paced, running-type shots as the arms will act as a shock absorber, but when doing more classic handheld, fatigue will show up in the shots fairly quickly, especially when working longer lens. Also, this would preclude the use of outboard monitoring away from the camera, except when mounted on sticks, with onboard monitor added and some flavor of signal splitter (HDMI or HD-SDI convertor). If neither of these is an issue, this is a nice design. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

March 25th, 2010, 07:03 PM	#2
Lewis Parrish-Hills New Boot Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 11	Steve, while testing some HD-DSLR's on the set of 24, Keifer Sutherland (Jack Bauer) said that he did not feel comfortable performing seriously infront of such a small camera, as he is more used to acting for large cine style cameras (Think matte boxes, shoulder rigs, monitors and all the other bells and whistles) As such the size and presence of a camera is now subject to the affectionately named 'Keifer test'; whether it's presence is large enough for him to be comfortable to act infront of it! For example, a handheld 7D with a little 50mm lens would certainly not pass the Keifer Test! however, a shoulder mounted rig with a large tele lens, matte box infront of it, hot shoe mounted mic and an external monitor on the rails would have far more presence, passing the Keifer Test! As for the rig itself, it's hands down the nicest looking 7d cine rig I have seen. Excellent work by those guys at cinevate!

March 25th, 2010, 07:21 PM	#3
Steve Witt Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: kentucky, USA Posts: 429	So the camera's presence in front of the actors (ie; Kiefer Sutherland), is apparently almost as important as the actor's presence in front of the camera. One of these cinema-tool companies should name their most ultimate DSLR rig package "The Kiefer". Too Funny!

March 25th, 2010, 10:37 PM	#4
Alex Sava Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 37	Lewis, are you sure it happened with dSLR cameras? I thought he just distinctly asked for a matte box on his cameras cause he can't act without them. Never heard anything of actual dSLRs and thought this joke about passing "The Kiefer Test" has been around for a while. I could be wrong. Anyways, I use it as a means of saying how good a rig looks. I know it's all about being useful, but I can't help but appreciate how aesthetically pleasing some rigs look... Thus they pass "The Kiefer Test" :D

March 26th, 2010, 07:59 AM	#6
Cody Dulock Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: arlington, texas Posts: 420	I have been using a redrock captain stubling with the microbrace body pad. Less fatigue with the gun stock type support and the stubling setup allows for easy use of the follow focus and camera controls. I position my right hand grip closer to the body of the camera so I can zoom in to get focus and hit records or change whatever settings are necessary. I have also been using that same thing into a single rod configuration if I want to go run n gun. Pretty sweet little rig with a lot of versatility. I have no experience with that particular cinevate rig so I cannot really comment. It looks like it works for what that guy is doing, but you should really be trying to figure out what kind of shooting you will be doing so you can make a rig that matches your shooting style/needs. How do you plan on shooting and maybe we can help you out?

March 26th, 2010, 11:11 AM	#7
Carlo Zanella Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico Posts: 216	That's the point! We do mainly field production, and speed is essential. The rig we use allows you to slide the matte box back and forth very quickly (just loosen an easily reachable screw at the bottom of the rails and the matte box is loose - Chrosziel). We change focal lenght VERY often, and our system makes it easy. I love the Cinevate's swing out design, but if you have filters on the matte, when you close it you still need to re-adjust the position of the matte in front of the lens. I think the Cinevate is the best rig I have seen so far: versatile, looks very well built. But I see it more as I rig for "filmaking", where you have more time to set up, change lenses etc. Field prod sometimes can be pretty fast paced, you may just use one lens, and, as you all will probably say "get a dedicated videocam for that purpose", sometimes we still like to be able to shoot with the color, look, and depth of field of an HDSLR. Cinevate, very nice design though! Carlo Zanella The Santa Fe TV Show

March 26th, 2010, 12:10 PM	#8
Cody Dulock Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: arlington, texas Posts: 420	For situations where I use a matte box, follow focus, and other accessories, being fast is essential (like Carlo said)! I use the redrock matte box and is super simple to swing away and move it back and forth to adjust for different focal lengths via the rods on the side. I do mainly event/field production work and speed is essential as well (as it is on any set). But I configure my rigs a lot different than this guy, but I usually reconfigure them depending on the situation or shoot I'm on. With that being said, there is no one rig fits all. What works for that guy in the video may not work for Steve. That's why it's important to figure out what you will be using it for (IMO).

March 27th, 2010, 08:47 PM	#9
Steve Witt Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: kentucky, USA Posts: 429	Yes I think this will be the rig that I will eventually get...only thing missing is the Z-Finder.