Syncing Analog Nagra with 7D?

[Martin Guitar]

I love the sound of tape and i am wondering if anybody has any experience with Nagra analog recorders and if they would sync to digital video?

If syncing is possible i would buy a Nagra 4.2 in a heartbeat.

[Gustav Damave]

If it is fitted with the sync tone you're good to go. That will prevent it from drifting. If not, it may drift a little over time, so it may need a little sync tweaking here and there. There is also software to do that I understand. I have used that model, they're great.

[Karl Lohninger]

You can sync any analog machine with hardly a problem. Just be pedantic with slating and calling out scene and take number at the beginning (NO TAIL SLATES!) of each shot.

Because of generally rather short takes (think film-shoot and not 'video-shoot') it'll be all good. It'll work nicely and it'll sound even nicer;-)

[Martin Guitar]

I will be filming an interview so takes will be long.

I wish i could just rent one in the L.A area. No one seem to be renting those units anymore. If anybody has any idea where to rent let me know.

From all your replies (thanks btw) it looks like it would be drifting a little but could be edited pretty easily. I will continue to look for a rental.

[Robert Kennedy]

You might try Coffey Sound, I believe they still have a timecode Nagra 4.2 in their rental department.

Also, I find the sync on the 7D to be just fine over it's maximum HD clip duration. When paired against other timecode recorder there was only a drift of about 1 frame/12 minutes.

You don't need to use the timecode to benefit from this... Just use a clap slate like they have since the dawn of sync sound and you should be fine.
-R

[Martin Guitar]

Thanks Robert, you are right they do have them for rental.

Thanks!

[Karl Lohninger]

Martin, you do not need a 'time code' Nagra. You can't sync a DSLR via time code. Don't bother. You need a mono of stereo Nagra, c'est tout!
I've recorded loads of production sound for movies with the 2 Nagras I had, with and without TC. And btw, the 'classic' microphone that goes with a Nagra is the venerable Sennheiser 415/416 - it was essentially made for the Nagra!
Good luck!

Location sound might have Nagras as well as Wilcox!

[Martin Guitar]

I have the Nagra IV-S in front of me now to test this weekend.

I will report. ~Carl i have really great custom made mics from Oliver Archut. They are one of a kind and the sound you get from them is a dream.

[Martin Guitar]

I just finished synching a 13 minutes continuous take with the Nagra 4.2. I guess with the in camera sound off you gain 1 minute. The sound is so warm and real. I recorded with a U67 on a boom with me and my friend talking on the couch.

Not a frame drifted. It's a complete success. The way tape handles peaks is just so beautiful with a nice soft natural compression. I opened a box from fedex during the take and the cardboard tearing sound was insane.

Very exciting stuff.

[Bryan McCullough]

Originally Posted by Martin Guitar

I just finished synching a 13 minutes continuous take with the Nagra 4.2. I guess with the in camera sound off you gain 1 minute.

Now that's interesting.

[David W. Taylor]

I was so pleased to move away from all the problems that analogue recording gave...tape hiss limiting the dynamic range, frequency response altering with every tape type and batch...azimuth problems etc. It amazes me that the audio world can still convince itself that analogue is somehow special!
The Nagra 4 isn't even easy to line up for accurate frequency response.

I believe in keeping it digital, 48k and 24 bit gives all the dynamic range you'll ever need. Just use a good mic and mic amp.

[Mike Calla]

Might i suggest a small tube pre amp instead of a nagra.

A little A.R.T Tube MP preamp does wonders to sterile film/video/mics - lavs too! Smooths out the highs with out being harsh, gives a nice round bottom, sits well in the mix.

Nice little, quiet, steel tube preamp. about 99$. But- needs ac power

Do it all the time when i can!

[David W. Jones]

Can't say that I miss feeding a Nagra 12 D-cells, or the limited record time at 15ips.
I can remember getting excited while making spools with the new Ampex 499 Grand Master tape when it came out, but that seems like eons ago.
If you are that excited about analog tape recording, I have a very nice Studer A-810 1/4" studio deck in roll-around cart with overbridge that I would be willing to part with. Or a Tascam 32 that would be less expensive.


All the best!

[Brian Drysdale]

With the Nagra (assuming it has no T.C.) you need to make sure that it has a crystal sync board fitted, film production machines usually do and the board that enables it to lock on to the Pilotone during playback.

Other than that it would be a matter of slating.

[Martin Guitar]

Originally Posted by David W. Taylor

It amazes me that the audio world can still convince itself that analogue is somehow special!

I record to both digital and tape and in my experience, digital without a pristine signal path (Pre, clock, AD - DA converters) does not sound good to my ears. Very few people know how to transfer analog to digital without degrading the source. Recording digital is not that easy either and that's why a lot of major projects sound "digital" in a bad way.

It is difficult and somewhat time consuming to record to tape but in my opinion and to my ears, digital audio without proper care does not sound good.

In some ways for special projects, i believe that not having unlimited tracks, limited recording time and syncing sound in post makes your work better. It makes you make better decisions and think about what you are doing before you press record.