Sigma 30mm 1.4 - opinions

Augusto Alves da Silva · August 6th, 2010, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty Rogers

And I love it!
I don't have the T2i yet, but the stills are amazing!
Great improvement over my 50mm f/1.8 for composition. I can't imagine why anyone would pick a 50mm over this lens on a crop-sensor camera.

I saw Khoi's video and had to have one.

:~)

Personally I would get (if looking for a 30mm or aprox.) the Canon 24mm 1-4 II instead. It´s a little more expensive but can´t compare it. Also I like manual aperture lenses with de-clicked aperture. Bear in mind that if you keep the shutter at 50 (or other speed but locked) sometimes 1/3 of a stop (minimum change on non-manual aperture lenses) over or underexposes depending on the situation. This is just my opinion based on my personal experience. I´ve had many non-manual aperture lenses and only kept the ones I can´t replace for manual apertures because there aren´t any.. The canon 16-35mm, the 70-200mm IS II and the 50mm 1.2. To answer your question there are many shots with my 550 and 7D and even 1dMKIV shot with a 50mm like with every other lens and focal length. A 50mm quickly becomes a 35mm if you take some steps back...or a 85mm for that matter. I saw great movies shot with a 50mm( check Michael Paul on vimeo) ONLY like I´ve seen with 30,40, and 85...so this is just ways of working around your means. I love one zoom lens which I still have which is the FF Canon 28-135mm. It is a fantastic lens for the price and it is full frame.But again it´s up to each one´s workflow and style. James T.Kirk on vimeo has fantastic work done with Canon manual FD lenses...like a 28mm 50mm and not much more. Also Martti Ekstrad on vimeo too...Only FD lenses 28mm and 50mm...and both use GH1 which has a 1.9 crop factor not 1.6. It´s more a matter of working with what you got and create...and shoot shoot shoot...

Khoi Pham · August 6th, 2010, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Augusto Alves da Silva

Seemed a tempting lens...bought it and returned it after two days. I´ll explain why

1- APS only
2- No manual aperture (1/3 stop increase not really good for video)
3- Not really sharp at 1.8 and below
4- Expensive considering it´s not a Canon or Zeiss.

I own a Zeiss 28mm 2.0 and can´t even compare with the Sigma. Not on the same league. Although there is a difference from 1.4 to 2.0 Zeiss is a truly excellent lenses compared with the Sigma.
Also the Nikon AI-S 35mm 1.4 still available on ebay with manual aperture and FF is a quarter of the price of the Sigma and still 10 times better in all aspects. I still gave a chance to the sigma to shoot on a bightime job but didn´t perform well...unfortunately.

The original poster ask for which lens to use with his T2i, so
1. APS lens is fine for his camera unless he wants to buy a full frame camera later on like the 5DM2
2. All current EF and EFS Canon lens has no aperture control on the lens, aperture control is on the camera in increment of .2 like from F1.4, 1.6, 1.8, 2.0..., that is 1/4 not 1/3 what more do you want? it is faster to adjust on the fly when control of the aperture is on the body and you use your right thumb and adjust focus with the left hand, and you can see your f-stop # changing, when you use lens with aperture control on the lens, you have to do both on your left hand focus and aperture change and then you have to rely on the click to know where your f stop is at, if after shooting for awhile and you forget what f-stop you are at and want to change to something different you have to either look at the lens or open it all the way wide and rely on the click to go to a certain f-stop and to me this old way is slow and pia.
3. You must have a bad copy because mine is sharp wide open.

Augusto Alves da Silva · August 6th, 2010, 08:45 AM

Hi Kohl:

Yes the post was which was the best lens for APS so it´s true but there are some things to remember.
1- Even if the lens is optimized for APS sensors doesn´t mean a full frame is not better in optical terms.As you know you will have on a full frame lens a sweet spot when using an APS that obviously you won´t have on a EFS lens. Also no soft corners when open wide. If it´s a 1.4 I think people would like to use that feature...
2- 1/4 stop when you want to change aperture while recording it still shows as a "jumpy" change of aperture and not progressive when you do it by hand and on a de-clicked or cinema lens. On scenes where you have to change aperture while filming you will have to do it manually and with de-clicked lenses not as you would have on a regular photo DSLR lens with 1/3 or 1/4 stop.
3- The price is excessive for an APS lens when you could have a similar and much better full frame one.
4- Mine was not a bad batch actually you can´t compare the Sigma to a Canon 24mm 1.4. If you don´t have one try one and compare it to the sigma and you will see what I mean.
5- I have nothing against people´s choices but still this is a source of info exchanging experiences and each one is entitled to it´s own opinion...You and I. I can´t however try to convince myself that I didn´t make a bad choice when I bought the Sigma instead of the Canon...so I actually tested and reconsidered and took it back and got the Canon. I don´t use only the 550D I use the 5D and the 1D and the 7D so the full frame fits all! There is a fantastic lens that I don´t buy exactly because it´s a APS and that is the Canon 17-55mm 2.8.
P.S.- Any Nikon 35mm 1.4 still available on ebay will perform better than the Sigma and for 5 times less... :-) and de-clicking it´s easy...and is full frame...

Here is a link of a low light work I did with the Sigma 30mm and that I consider sub standard according to my quality standards. Thank you for watching

Khoi Pham · August 6th, 2010, 10:27 AM

You still coming down on a fact that it is not a full frame lens, you are using a full frame camera and should have not even considered buying it in the first place, putting a aps lens on any full frame camera will have soft corner, true if you use full frame lens on crop camera you will get more sweet spot but even crop lens like the sigma on a crop camera will still have sweet spot for video because you are using 16X9 frame and not the full censor, you can't compare the sigma with the canon 24mm 1.4L lens that cost 5 times the price, if you are doing real low light work, btw can't see your video because it is private, your Zeiss 28mm 2.0 is a full stop slower than the Sigma so it means on the T2i instead of only have to use ISO800 you would have to use ISO 1600 with twice the noise, and less shalow dof at F2, and the reason we all go to DSLR is the shalow dof that we can't get with 1/3 video camera chips, low light and color quality, even if the Zeiss is sharper I would rather have less noise. You said the Canon 17-55 is a fantastic lens but you wouldn't buy because it is APS lens then why did you buy the Sigma 30mm 1.4 it is also a APS lens and then return it because you are not happy with it? what do you expect when putting a aps lens on full frame camera? If this post was in the 5D forum I would never suggest someone to buy the Sigma lens but for the T2i it is a great lens, some people don't want to mess with declicking apeture lens, still want auto focus for still, still want apeture reading in the viewfinder so if you don't care for those features doesn't mean that someone else don't use them, I'm not trying to convince you that you have a bad copy, it just that I have different opinion on this lens than you. Peace.

Augusto Alves da Silva · August 6th, 2010, 11:09 AM

Hi Khoi:

Surely you have your reasons and I have mine and I just give my opinion because people ask :-)...If you read all the posts mine and from others you will see that there are complaints about soft or dark corners on the Sigma wide open. If you have a full frame lens on a APS camera you won´t have the same dark or soft corners as you have with the APS one. I am comparing with the 24mm Canon now...because it´s the one that has auto focus and electronic aperture not the Zeiss. You can watch the video it´s not private anymore. I give you the same advice. Test the 24mm 1.4 Canon and you will regret having bought the Sigma. :-) because I usually buy lenses for life...I intend to make plenty of money with them.
About the CROP thing the Canon uses the FULL sensor...what it does is that it skips lines so it displays full HD...that´s one of the reasons of the banding and skew effect. Canon USES the full sensor to capture image unlike other cameras like RED etc that use CROP sensor. These are the facts....
Have a nice weekend.

P.S. -The Sigma was tested on the 7D not a full frame camera.

Jean-Philippe Archibald · August 6th, 2010, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Augusto Alves da Silva

Hi Khoi:
About the CROP thing the Canon uses the FULL sensor...what it does is that it skips lines so it displays full HD...that´s one of the reasons of the banding and skew effect. Canon USES the full sensor to capture image unlike other cameras like RED etc that use CROP sensor. These are the facts....

There is definitely a crop. The sensor is 1.5:1 (or 3:2) and the recorded HD material is 1.78:1 (or 16:9). The uper and lower side are croped so you are losing the worst part of any lenses, the extremes corners.

Augusto Alves da Silva · August 6th, 2010, 11:29 AM

You only slight cropping to use the standard 16:9 format thus using the whole sensor to capture image. Not like using only 2 mp (1920x1080) from a 18 mp sensor. From top to bottom you don´t have a crop but a line skip. The only REAL crop is on the 640x480 mode.
Thank you

this has been a never ending discussion...

http://notesonvideo.blogspot.com/201...-is-video.html

Khoi Pham · August 6th, 2010, 12:32 PM

According to that link, the still image is exactly the same aspect ratio as the video image, but that is not so, when you take a still, it is not 16X9, none of the still image taken with the T2i is 16X9, they are more like 3x2
Beside even if it doesn't crop, and if you see soft edge on still, it would be very hard to see it in moving video, unless your video is a long static shot which makes very boring video.

Augusto Alves da Silva · August 6th, 2010, 12:40 PM

Khoi:
I think you missed the line skipping and resizing methods (binning and line skipping) used from full sensor to full HD...If they cropped from full 18mp to 2mp and not used the sensor in the widest area possible they would loose the DOF (smaller sensor) light sensitivity (smaller sensor) less light being sent to the sensor and so on...I posted the results of the Sigma 30mm and gave my opinion...now I will post on different subjects ok?

Take care

Man Yip · August 11th, 2010, 11:25 PM

Just received the 30mm Sigma. The build quality is the best compare the other lens I own, I have a 90mm, 70-200mm, 17-50mm (all tammy) and 24mm nikkon. One thing I have to mention is that the lens mount and the camera mount is lock tighter than all the lens I own. The image quality is also better. The focus is quite but a little slow.

So far I have no complain beside it is a little costly compare to Canon 35mm F2 and slower focus. But considering it comes with a nice lens bag with padding and a really well made lens hood, I suppose that's where the extra $100 went.

I thought about buying a used oldies nikon, I have several old nikon lens but it's a hassle to buy a EF to Nikon mount and losing the AF function is kinda annoying for still image. I did a quick test with the old 24mm Nikkon F2 and the Sigma 30mm, the sigma produce a better image.

At the same time, compare this lens with the Zeiss 28mm 2.0 or 24mm 1-4 II or 17-55mm 2.8 is quit naive. No offense but these lens are significant more expensive. Indeed, if you have a open bottom budget, get the best lens. But if you have a budget like me (all of my lens are third party and some are used) and still want good image and video in low light and bokeh, the sigma 30mm won't disappoint you.

August 6th, 2010, 08:45 AM	#33
Augusto Alves da Silva New Boot Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 12	Hi Kohl: Yes the post was which was the best lens for APS so it´s true but there are some things to remember. 1- Even if the lens is optimized for APS sensors doesn´t mean a full frame is not better in optical terms.As you know you will have on a full frame lens a sweet spot when using an APS that obviously you won´t have on a EFS lens. Also no soft corners when open wide. If it´s a 1.4 I think people would like to use that feature... 2- 1/4 stop when you want to change aperture while recording it still shows as a "jumpy" change of aperture and not progressive when you do it by hand and on a de-clicked or cinema lens. On scenes where you have to change aperture while filming you will have to do it manually and with de-clicked lenses not as you would have on a regular photo DSLR lens with 1/3 or 1/4 stop. 3- The price is excessive for an APS lens when you could have a similar and much better full frame one. 4- Mine was not a bad batch actually you can´t compare the Sigma to a Canon 24mm 1.4. If you don´t have one try one and compare it to the sigma and you will see what I mean. 5- I have nothing against people´s choices but still this is a source of info exchanging experiences and each one is entitled to it´s own opinion...You and I. I can´t however try to convince myself that I didn´t make a bad choice when I bought the Sigma instead of the Canon...so I actually tested and reconsidered and took it back and got the Canon. I don´t use only the 550D I use the 5D and the 1D and the 7D so the full frame fits all! There is a fantastic lens that I don´t buy exactly because it´s a APS and that is the Canon 17-55mm 2.8. P.S.- Any Nikon 35mm 1.4 still available on ebay will perform better than the Sigma and for 5 times less... :-) and de-clicking it´s easy...and is full frame... Here is a link of a low light work I did with the Sigma 30mm and that I consider sub standard according to my quality standards. Thank you for watching Vimeo Last edited by Augusto Alves da Silva; August 6th, 2010 at 09:55 AM. Reason: incomplete post

August 6th, 2010, 10:27 AM	#34
Khoi Pham Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas Posts: 747	You still coming down on a fact that it is not a full frame lens, you are using a full frame camera and should have not even considered buying it in the first place, putting a aps lens on any full frame camera will have soft corner, true if you use full frame lens on crop camera you will get more sweet spot but even crop lens like the sigma on a crop camera will still have sweet spot for video because you are using 16X9 frame and not the full censor, you can't compare the sigma with the canon 24mm 1.4L lens that cost 5 times the price, if you are doing real low light work, btw can't see your video because it is private, your Zeiss 28mm 2.0 is a full stop slower than the Sigma so it means on the T2i instead of only have to use ISO800 you would have to use ISO 1600 with twice the noise, and less shalow dof at F2, and the reason we all go to DSLR is the shalow dof that we can't get with 1/3 video camera chips, low light and color quality, even if the Zeiss is sharper I would rather have less noise. You said the Canon 17-55 is a fantastic lens but you wouldn't buy because it is APS lens then why did you buy the Sigma 30mm 1.4 it is also a APS lens and then return it because you are not happy with it? what do you expect when putting a aps lens on full frame camera? If this post was in the 5D forum I would never suggest someone to buy the Sigma lens but for the T2i it is a great lens, some people don't want to mess with declicking apeture lens, still want auto focus for still, still want apeture reading in the viewfinder so if you don't care for those features doesn't mean that someone else don't use them, I'm not trying to convince you that you have a bad copy, it just that I have different opinion on this lens than you. Peace. __________________ Khoi Pham www.proeditproductions.com

August 6th, 2010, 12:32 PM	#38
Khoi Pham Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas Posts: 747	According to that link, the still image is exactly the same aspect ratio as the video image, but that is not so, when you take a still, it is not 16X9, none of the still image taken with the T2i is 16X9, they are more like 3x2 Beside even if it doesn't crop, and if you see soft edge on still, it would be very hard to see it in moving video, unless your video is a long static shot which makes very boring video. __________________ Khoi Pham www.proeditproductions.com

August 6th, 2010, 11:09 AM	#35
Augusto Alves da Silva New Boot Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 12	Hi Khoi: Surely you have your reasons and I have mine and I just give my opinion because people ask :-)...If you read all the posts mine and from others you will see that there are complaints about soft or dark corners on the Sigma wide open. If you have a full frame lens on a APS camera you won´t have the same dark or soft corners as you have with the APS one. I am comparing with the 24mm Canon now...because it´s the one that has auto focus and electronic aperture not the Zeiss. You can watch the video it´s not private anymore. I give you the same advice. Test the 24mm 1.4 Canon and you will regret having bought the Sigma. :-) because I usually buy lenses for life...I intend to make plenty of money with them. About the CROP thing the Canon uses the FULL sensor...what it does is that it skips lines so it displays full HD...that´s one of the reasons of the banding and skew effect. Canon USES the full sensor to capture image unlike other cameras like RED etc that use CROP sensor. These are the facts.... Have a nice weekend. P.S. -The Sigma was tested on the 7D not a full frame camera.

August 6th, 2010, 11:29 AM	#37
Augusto Alves da Silva New Boot Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 12	You only slight cropping to use the standard 16:9 format thus using the whole sensor to capture image. Not like using only 2 mp (1920x1080) from a 18 mp sensor. From top to bottom you don´t have a crop but a line skip. The only REAL crop is on the 640x480 mode. Thank you this has been a never ending discussion... http://notesonvideo.blogspot.com/201...-is-video.html

August 6th, 2010, 12:40 PM	#39
Augusto Alves da Silva New Boot Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 12	Khoi: I think you missed the line skipping and resizing methods (binning and line skipping) used from full sensor to full HD...If they cropped from full 18mp to 2mp and not used the sensor in the widest area possible they would loose the DOF (smaller sensor) light sensitivity (smaller sensor) less light being sent to the sensor and so on...I posted the results of the Sigma 30mm and gave my opinion...now I will post on different subjects ok? Take care

August 11th, 2010, 11:25 PM	#40
Man Yip Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 53	Just received the 30mm Sigma. The build quality is the best compare the other lens I own, I have a 90mm, 70-200mm, 17-50mm (all tammy) and 24mm nikkon. One thing I have to mention is that the lens mount and the camera mount is lock tighter than all the lens I own. The image quality is also better. The focus is quite but a little slow. So far I have no complain beside it is a little costly compare to Canon 35mm F2 and slower focus. But considering it comes with a nice lens bag with padding and a really well made lens hood, I suppose that's where the extra $100 went. I thought about buying a used oldies nikon, I have several old nikon lens but it's a hassle to buy a EF to Nikon mount and losing the AF function is kinda annoying for still image. I did a quick test with the old 24mm Nikkon F2 and the Sigma 30mm, the sigma produce a better image. At the same time, compare this lens with the Zeiss 28mm 2.0 or 24mm 1-4 II or 17-55mm 2.8 is quit naive. No offense but these lens are significant more expensive. Indeed, if you have a open bottom budget, get the best lens. But if you have a budget like me (all of my lens are third party and some are used) and still want good image and video in low light and bokeh, the sigma 30mm won't disappoint you.