7D vs XHA1 Low Light Images at DVinfo.net

Nicholas de Kock · February 22nd, 2010, 10:18 AM

I rented in the 7D over the weekend to shoot along side my Canon XHA1 at a wedding. Here is the results from my low light tests at the reception. In all cases color/noise and brightness looked better on the 7D. My conclusion is that the 7D is definitely a good low light camera for wedding receptions.

No color grading or editing was done to the images.

Michael Galvan · February 22nd, 2010, 10:43 AM

But the 7D is also showing a good deal higher contrast level. It is blowing our the whites in the video to expose for the faces. The A1 is showing more much more range to work with.

The difference in the flowers between the 2 is staggering. And your not in a high contrast lighting scenario at all.

I shoot with the XL H1S and the 7D together, and I limit the 7D shots to closeup shots.

Nicholas de Kock · February 22nd, 2010, 10:47 AM

Michael I agree with you, however this was my first shoot with the 7D. I've noticed it's very hard to judge exposure and easy to over expose shots without Zebra Stripes to help.

Michael Galvan · February 22nd, 2010, 10:59 AM

I agree with that. But the thing here is your exposure for their faces is within range of where it should be. And the flowers, the guys white shirt, etc. are all blowing out tremendously in a low contrast lighting situation. It shows the limited range the SLR has in relation to the A1.

You should try shooting with the Marvel cine setting that you can download from his site. It lowers the contrast a lot in the 7D. Still not at the level you can get out of the XH/XL but it helps.

Peter Manojlovic · February 22nd, 2010, 11:24 AM

2 part question here....

A) Could any overblown whites be brought down in post?? Or are the pixels lost?

and

B) Could a 35mm adapter address the same light issues that the 7D doesn't have? I realize you can't manipulate the ISO setting in the XH A1, but it would be nice to know if an adapter could allow for more light..
The only reason i ask of option B, is because i'm considering buying an adapter..Especially if everybody's starting to get rid of them due to the 5D and 7D's DOF and ease of use...

Thanx..

Raymond Tsang · February 22nd, 2010, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Manojlovic

2 part question here....

A) Could any overblown whites be brought down in post?? Or are the pixels lost?

and

B) Could a 35mm adapter address the same light issues that the 7D doesn't have? I realize you can't manipulate the ISO setting in the XH A1, but it would be nice to know if an adapter could allow for more light..
The only reason i ask of option B, is because i'm considering buying an adapter..Especially if everybody's starting to get rid of them due to the 5D and 7D's DOF and ease of use...

Thanx..

A) If it's overblown, there's not much you can do to bring back details
B) You will actually lose a few stops by using a 35mm adapter.

Try dialing down the contrast and sharpness on your 7D and practice shooting+editing with the footage. I'm sure you'll get the hang of it soon enough :) As you probably noticed, the LCD is more of a guide rather than a true representation when it comes to properly exposing your scene.

Ronan Fournier · February 22nd, 2010, 12:42 PM

Thank you Nicholas, for sharing this interesting test.
I've tried the 7D video mode at dawn but I've found that above 1250ISO it becomes too much noisy in mid tone and dark areas, don't you think so?

Michael Galvan · February 22nd, 2010, 01:06 PM

Yes Ronan, this is my experience too.

That's what perplexes me about these SLRs at the moment. One thing they are praised for is their lowlight capabilities, yet I find that anything exceeding ISO1250 has a lot of noise, particularly chroma noise.

Nicholas de Kock · February 22nd, 2010, 01:13 PM

Ronan, it's definitely noisy at ISO 1600 but it does look better than the noise I get at 12dB. As a guide I try to never shoot above 6dB. These days I try to light the area properly instead of shooting in the dark. This was the first time I handled the 7D so I'm sure much can still be learned. I would like to test it against the EX1 some time. I used one 800W tungsten light about 12 meters away to provide light for reception. It was also very hard for me to get critical focus using the LCD.

Ronan Fournier · February 22nd, 2010, 03:28 PM

I also tried the 7D with a 50mm f1.4 lens @ 1000 ISO, 1/50, and the result are interesting : I had average on the screen the same level of light as it was on the stage.
Unfortunatly there is no zoom opening at f1.4!

The EX1 is much more sensitive than the XHA1 I think.

For the consumer market, Sony will release soon a camedorder which is suppose to be very sensitive… but not professionnal (so not good for wedding!):
HDR-CX550V | 64GB HD Handycam® Camcorder | Sony | Sony Style USA

Marty Hudzik · February 22nd, 2010, 07:34 PM

I though that Dslrs in general should have a wider dynamic range....not less. I am seeing similar issues with my 7d in situations where the lighting "is" low contrast to start with. And I have already set my contrast as low as it will go. Have to admit it does pull a great image out of not so well lit situations but often times it appears that it has a built in S curve that blows out the whites and crushes the blacks all too easily if you are not careful.

Where can I find that super low contrast preset?

Jon Fairhurst · February 22nd, 2010, 07:47 PM

The lowest I know of is to choose "Faithful" and then reduce contrast to the minimum. I prefer "Natural" with contrast reduced. If you start with "Standard", the contrast will be fairly high.

Marty Hudzik · February 23rd, 2010, 11:12 AM

Ok. So maybe I just had a realization....maybe I didn't. Each of the "presets" such as faithful", "natural" are unique in reference to the slider adjustments? What I mean is if I pick a preset, look at the settings it will all be "zeroed" out and any changes plus/minus will adjust from there? So the scale of adjustments are shifted according to the preset?

I am asking because I just always thought that the presets were just pre-configured versions of the sliders. I'll have to look into this as it may answer why I can't seem to lower the contrast enough.

Thanks.

Manus Sweeney · February 23rd, 2010, 11:39 AM

ehh.. ok.. i'd like to know this too!

Tony Davies-Patrick · February 24th, 2010, 02:27 PM

I also agree that the 7D is blowing out detail in the whites.

At least the XH-A1 camcorder is maintaining a lot more detail in the flowers, shirts and face cheeks etc.

The 7D files may look more punchy and vibrant strait from the camera, but the 'duller' XH-A1 files hold far more details and could be worked easier in post to replicate the 7D files...but not the other way round.

The XH-A1 could also be adjusted in presets to deliver more punchy high contrast shots straight from the cam if that is what is required.

February 22nd, 2010, 10:18 AM	#1
Nicholas de Kock Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: KLD, South Africa Posts: 983	7D vs XHA1 Low Light Images I rented in the 7D over the weekend to shoot along side my Canon XHA1 at a wedding. Here is the results from my low light tests at the reception. In all cases color/noise and brightness looked better on the 7D. My conclusion is that the 7D is definitely a good low light camera for wedding receptions. No color grading or editing was done to the images. Attached Thumbnails

February 22nd, 2010, 10:43 AM	#2
Michael Galvan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 775	But the 7D is also showing a good deal higher contrast level. It is blowing our the whites in the video to expose for the faces. The A1 is showing more much more range to work with. The difference in the flowers between the 2 is staggering. And your not in a high contrast lighting scenario at all. I shoot with the XL H1S and the 7D together, and I limit the 7D shots to closeup shots. __________________ www.michaelgalvan.com www.screenanthology.com

February 22nd, 2010, 10:59 AM	#4
Michael Galvan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 775	I agree with that. But the thing here is your exposure for their faces is within range of where it should be. And the flowers, the guys white shirt, etc. are all blowing out tremendously in a low contrast lighting situation. It shows the limited range the SLR has in relation to the A1. You should try shooting with the Marvel cine setting that you can download from his site. It lowers the contrast a lot in the 7D. Still not at the level you can get out of the XH/XL but it helps. __________________ www.michaelgalvan.com www.screenanthology.com

February 22nd, 2010, 12:42 PM	#7
Ronan Fournier Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Paris, France Posts: 201	Thank you Nicholas, for sharing this interesting test. I've tried the 7D video mode at dawn but I've found that above 1250ISO it becomes too much noisy in mid tone and dark areas, don't you think so? __________________ http://www.songesdemoai.com/

February 22nd, 2010, 01:06 PM	#8
Michael Galvan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 775	Yes Ronan, this is my experience too. That's what perplexes me about these SLRs at the moment. One thing they are praised for is their lowlight capabilities, yet I find that anything exceeding ISO1250 has a lot of noise, particularly chroma noise. __________________ www.michaelgalvan.com www.screenanthology.com

February 22nd, 2010, 10:47 AM	#3
Nicholas de Kock Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: KLD, South Africa Posts: 983	Michael I agree with you, however this was my first shoot with the 7D. I've noticed it's very hard to judge exposure and easy to over expose shots without Zebra Stripes to help.

February 22nd, 2010, 11:24 AM	#5
Peter Manojlovic Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hamilton Ontario Posts: 769	2 part question here.... A) Could any overblown whites be brought down in post?? Or are the pixels lost? and B) Could a 35mm adapter address the same light issues that the 7D doesn't have? I realize you can't manipulate the ISO setting in the XH A1, but it would be nice to know if an adapter could allow for more light.. The only reason i ask of option B, is because i'm considering buying an adapter..Especially if everybody's starting to get rid of them due to the 5D and 7D's DOF and ease of use... Thanx..

February 22nd, 2010, 01:13 PM	#9
Nicholas de Kock Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: KLD, South Africa Posts: 983	Ronan, it's definitely noisy at ISO 1600 but it does look better than the noise I get at 12dB. As a guide I try to never shoot above 6dB. These days I try to light the area properly instead of shooting in the dark. This was the first time I handled the 7D so I'm sure much can still be learned. I would like to test it against the EX1 some time. I used one 800W tungsten light about 12 meters away to provide light for reception. It was also very hard for me to get critical focus using the LCD.

February 22nd, 2010, 03:28 PM	#10
Ronan Fournier Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Paris, France Posts: 201	I also tried the 7D with a 50mm f1.4 lens @ 1000 ISO, 1/50, and the result are interesting : I had average on the screen the same level of light as it was on the stage. Unfortunatly there is no zoom opening at f1.4! The EX1 is much more sensitive than the XHA1 I think. For the consumer market, Sony will release soon a camedorder which is suppose to be very sensitive… but not professionnal (so not good for wedding!): HDR-CX550V \| 64GB HD Handycam® Camcorder \| Sony \| Sony Style USA __________________ http://www.songesdemoai.com/

February 22nd, 2010, 07:34 PM	#11
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	I though that Dslrs in general should have a wider dynamic range....not less. I am seeing similar issues with my 7d in situations where the lighting "is" low contrast to start with. And I have already set my contrast as low as it will go. Have to admit it does pull a great image out of not so well lit situations but often times it appears that it has a built in S curve that blows out the whites and crushes the blacks all too easily if you are not careful. Where can I find that super low contrast preset?

February 22nd, 2010, 07:47 PM	#12
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	The lowest I know of is to choose "Faithful" and then reduce contrast to the minimum. I prefer "Natural" with contrast reduced. If you start with "Standard", the contrast will be fairly high. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

February 23rd, 2010, 11:12 AM	#13
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	Ok. So maybe I just had a realization....maybe I didn't. Each of the "presets" such as faithful", "natural" are unique in reference to the slider adjustments? What I mean is if I pick a preset, look at the settings it will all be "zeroed" out and any changes plus/minus will adjust from there? So the scale of adjustments are shifted according to the preset? I am asking because I just always thought that the presets were just pre-configured versions of the sliders. I'll have to look into this as it may answer why I can't seem to lower the contrast enough. Thanks.

February 23rd, 2010, 11:39 AM	#14
Manus Sweeney Major Player Join Date: May 2009 Location: Amsterdam, NL Posts: 217	ehh.. ok.. i'd like to know this too!

February 24th, 2010, 02:27 PM	#15
Tony Davies-Patrick Trustee Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Worldwide Posts: 1,589	I also agree that the 7D is blowing out detail in the whites. At least the XH-A1 camcorder is maintaining a lot more detail in the flowers, shirts and face cheeks etc. The 7D files may look more punchy and vibrant strait from the camera, but the 'duller' XH-A1 files hold far more details and could be worked easier in post to replicate the 7D files...but not the other way round. The XH-A1 could also be adjusted in presets to deliver more punchy high contrast shots straight from the cam if that is what is required. __________________ www.WILDCARP.com www.NIKON.me.uk