Canon 7D vs comparable Nikon?

[Darrick Vanderwier]

I am posting this before doing a very thorough search of the net (shock and horror!!!) because I really don't know where to look just yet and I don't have a ton of time. I was hoping you all might be able to point me in the right direction.
Does anyone know how Nikon's "7D" comparable camera stacks up to the Canon?
What are the pro's and cons of Nikons offering vs the 7D?
I need to have enough knowledge to sound like I know what I am talking about next time my coworker suggests buying the nikon dslr for our video work. (he is a nikon guy I have always liked canons stuff....

He has a few nikon lenses already personally, but our work has none, so should he leave, there goes our supply of lenses then as well....

what is your advice oh great gurus!?
:o)
Thanks in advance!

[Darrick Vanderwier]

I found this already
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eo...ses-canon.html
somewhat helpful...
does nikon even have a full HD cam?
is the d300 the most comparable to the 7D?

[Darrick Vanderwier]

also found this to be a bit helpful...
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/photo-hd...ntax-k7-3.html

still not conclusive though...

[Perrone Ford]

Nikon does not sell anything comparable to the 5D/7D. So you can skip the search. I was also a Nikon shooter and swore I'd never buy another Canon, but Nikon have dropped the ball completely thus far in the realm of DSLR video.

[Tony Davies-Patrick]

The Nikon D300s and D3s are well capable of producing professional grade movies comparable to something shot on the 7D. In fact the D3s would be a far better choice for working in extreme low light conditions, plus it is FX format. The 720P is more than enough quality for most productions.
The biggest advantage of the 7D are the added frame rates, and the 25p is very important for anyone working in PAL format regions.
Regarding full 1080 HD, Nikon have just released a new camera with full 1080 and the next DSLR will be also be with 1080, and hopefully 25P specs.
Darrick of course, living in Canada, would not need PAL so the Nikons already have the frame rates he needs.

[Perrone Ford]

The Nikon D3s is capable of recording 5 minutes of 720/24p in a camera that costs 3 times what the 7D costs. It does no other frame rates. It cannot record a PAL frame. Not sure how that's comparable... but I guess if you're shooting Youtube video it might be.

[Ethan Cooper]

Currently Nikon doesn't make anything that matches the 7D in price/performance/video related features, but I'm still holding out hope.

[Tony Davies-Patrick]

The 720P quality that the D3s produces is more than enough for a wide range of professional productions, and I would take it's low light performance, build quality and full frame performance ahead of the crop format of the 7D anyday, and with the added FX stills image quality it is indeed a fantastic choice. The full frame lenses available for the D3s are second to none, without the need of extra adapters.

As mentioned, Darrick doesn't need the 25P, so that is not in the equation and the 24P frame rate in the Nikons is what he'll want.

However, the 7D does offers more and better controls in movie mode. And there is the added benefit of price, with the 7D at a far lower price bracket.

If you have the money, then I'd go for the D3s without question.

If you prefer full-frame and cannot for some reason live with 720P, then the 5D is your only choice, although again it does not provide the ease of use in movie mode compared to the crop-frame 7D.

When we compare similar priced crop-frame bodies such as the D300s and 7D, both have similar stills image performance, with the D300s offering some advantages with dual card slots etc, but if you mainly want it for video then the 7D is I think the better choice of the two.

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Tony Davies-Patrick

The 720P quality that the D3s produces is more than enough for a wide range of professional productions,

You've said this twice. Please qualify it.

Incidentally, what codec and bitrate is the D3s recording? I didn't see that mentioned and I'm curious.

[Tony Davies-Patrick]

720P is high enough quality for many professionals. Many do not require full 1080 for their work, and that is all that is being stated.

Here is some general information taken direct from the Nikon D3s for those who are intersted in numbers:

General
File size : 1 001 MiB
Duration : 8mn 13s
Overall bit rate : 17.0 Mbps
Movie name : Nikon D3s Sample Videos

Video
ID : 1
Format : M-JPEG
Codec ID : MJPG
Duration : 8mn 13s
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate : 24.000 fps
Resolution : 24 bits

Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Codec ID : A_PCM/INT/LIT
Duration : 8mn 13s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Resolution : 16 bits

A clip from the D3s put together in Adobe Premiere Pro CS4 and output to MPEG4 container using h264 codec via Adobe Encoder at VBR ~25 Mb/s. contains this information:
General

Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID : mp42
File size : 1.45 GiB
Duration : 8mn 13s
Overall bit rate : 25.2 Mbps

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 8mn 13s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 25.0 Mbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 59.940 fps
Standard : NTSC
Resolution : 24 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.453
Stream size : 1.44 GiB (99%)

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format version : Version 4
Format profile : LC
Format settings, SBR : No
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 8mn 13s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 192 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 240 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Resolution : 16 bits
____________

I hope some of the information above helps.

[Chuck Spaulding]

I think there's a significant difference between 720P and 1080P, I only use 720P to get 60 frames per second regardless of the camera.

So I would not purchase a camera that did not do 1080P.

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Chuck Spaulding

I think there's a significant difference between 720P and 1080P, I only use 720P to get 60 frames per second regardless of the camera.

So I would not purchase a camera that did not do 1080P.

The fact that it's 24.00 and not 23.976 means you're going to have to follow a film workflow as well... another royal pain if you've got to sync sound.

And it's 17Mbps M-Jpeg. That won't get it done by ANY professional standards.

Sorry. Fail.

[Jon Fairhurst]

Perrone is right. Nikon's codec does not compete well against Canon's h.264 40-48 mbps codec.

In late 2008, I really wanted the D90 to be my camera as it was in budget and I figured that 720p was good enough. I wasn't happy with the rolling shutter, but it was the codec that killed the deal for me. When Canon announced the 5D2, the codec was so much better that I tripled my budget with no regrets.

That said, I'm no Nikon basher. Before long, they'll deliver a nice codec. Who knows? They might even fast forward and give us RAW wavelets(!) but for now, Canon rules the roost.

[Perrone Ford]

I'm certainly no Nikon basher. Goodness knows I wish they had a solution. The Nikon F4s I had changed me to a Nikon person forever. But what they're peddling for video just isn't good enough. Ironically, it's the same codec and bitrate as the $800 Panasonic GH1. But the Panasonic is shooing 60p at 1280x720.. and it has a 1080 mode.

[Tony Davies-Patrick]

I have no 'brand loyalty' as I use both Nikon & Canon systems. Neither company provides the best codecs for video, and neither gives all we want in movie modes. Canon is in the front (by a margin) on the video front, but Nikon is the best for stills. I'm looking this year to combine both in one hybrid...but am not convinced that the current crop can deliver on all fronts. The 7D has at least offered us more options, but I hate the crop and much prefer FX (as in 5D & D3s).
Hopefully the D700 hybrid update will offer us more of what we want, but at the moment it is a very difficult choice if you are about to part with your well-earned money into one system.