7D killed the A1... for me

[Bruce S. Yarock]

Michiel,
I haven't had to use important audio yet on most of the stuff I've done with it. On a 2 day day interview job I did for another producer, we used a second camera for the audio, running a boom mic and wireless into the 2nd camera. Right now, if I had to do quality audio, I could do one of the following:

1- Plug the rode ( or another mic) directly into my Edirol, and use the on board mic for reference.
2- Use a second camera for audio with the rode directly into the 7d for back up and reference, or
3- Run the mics into my sounddevices 302, and record the output to the edirol. That would be more work, but probably best. Still keeping the rode into the 7d.

With all the money I've already spent and all thge crap I already have, I can't see buying another recorder. I also don't see the juicedlink as an option untill the firmware lets you turn off the auto gain control. I also don't want to spend another $300 on a zoom, unless I had a good job that justified it.

On a lot of stuff I use a shot gun on one channel and wireless on the other. My only options would be a 2nd camera or the sds302.
Bruce Yarock

[Michiel van Baasbank]

Hey Bruce, thanks for your explanation. How do you sync your main (Edirol or another cam) audio with the 7D reference audio in CS3; did you use a slate during filming, and/or just align your waveforms afterwards? I've heard you can sync audio automatically with PluralEyes software, but to my knowledge it's not (yet) available for Premiere.

[Bruce S. Yarock]

A slate or clap is best. What I did on the inetrviews was a vebal followed by a clap, since I didn't bring a slate.
Roll camera, then say-
"Michiel inetrview in kitchen, take one" then a clap. The clap is usually enough to align the audio.
Bruce Yarock

[Brian Brown]

I use PPro CS4, so not automatic aligning plug-in for me. Just drag the clips onto the timeline, zoom into the timeline so that a second or two fills the whole screen, then highlight one clip and hit <alt> left-or right arrow to move the audio frame by frame left or right. Visually, I can get it to the nearest frame, usually. Play the audio back with both tracks on and you'll hear an echo if it's not to the nearest frame.

PPro also has the ability to use audio time units instead of frames IF you don't have a linked video track with it. Then you can align audio to the nearest sample (48,000 "frames" per SECOND).

Then, just mute the DSLR track, and you're golden.

[Brandon Paschal]

Jon, Brian, Bruce, Michael …

Thank you each for your quick & thorough responses. It certainly sounds as though the 7D would compliment, not necessarily replace my system. Testing would likely be the best thing I need to do. Your responses have prompted a few additional questions! Just a be more detail about my setup for reference.

- Cinevate proteus rails system, Zacuto rails and read double mount (w/ articulating arm)
- Rode mic NTG, G2 mic
- Nikon prime old school lenses (50mm, 105mm, 24mm)
- Nikon DSLR zoom lenses (18-55mm, 70-200mm)
- Focus Info DTE recorder (HDV HD)

1. HDV B-Roll
Do B-roll clips work integrate seamlessly w/ the look from the 7D? I've seen a few threads about the challenges therein. Also, I am assuming the HDV footage would then have to be converted to ProRes to edit in a single timeline? (I haven't dealt w/ ProRes at all before, just hear about the amount of data it takes up).

2. Moving Shots
My first project will likely be a music video for which I think I'd exclusively shoot w/ the 7D (love the shallow DOF w/o the cumbersome setup). I must admit I"m excited, but a bit concerned about the "rolling shutter" I hear about. Much of an issue here? I'm especially thinking about w/ the Steadicam Merlin I've invested in.

3. Slow Motion
I've seen a bit of the footage in slow mo from the 7D. Looks good, but I hear about shooting it in 720 as opposed to 1080. Is this an issue wrt integrating it into the same project? It sounds as though it must be pre-considered vs slowing footage not originally intended for slo' mo'.

4. Audio
3. I have a Rode shotgun mic and a Senheiser wireless G2 … is it required I have one of the adapters you mention (Edirol/Tascam) or can I have it plugged directly to the 7D input. I'd hate to have separate gear (or run my other camera); but it sounds as though audio goes separate from the video when it comes to shooting w/ the 7D?

5. Lens Selection?
I have a few Nikon prime lenses (50mm, 105mm, 24mm). I also have 18-55mm Nikon and 70-200mm that go with my Nikon D60. I'm hearing great things about the the Tokina wide. Should I get the default 18-135mm lens, or look to something more particular? My guess is the 18-135 would be good to start w/ and then I can start thinking about adapters. I just want to maximize my previous investments.

Sorry for the long post, but I think framing the additional questions may help. I appreciate your suggestions!!!

[Michael Simons]

In regards to the 12 minute clip for weddings, early in the day, make sure you ask the Best Man and Maid of Honor how long their toasts will be. Start/Stop in between their toasts.

[Michiel van Baasbank]

Originally Posted by Brandon Paschal

Jon, Brian, Bruce, Michael …
Sorry for the long post, but I think framing the additional questions may help. I appreciate your suggestions!!!

Mind you, I do not have the 7D yet, but because like you, I'm planning to buy one soon, I have been doing a lot of research, so it's not from personal experience, but from other sources.

1. From what I hear, the difference between mid or even high-end HDV cams (like the A1) and the 7D can be huge. Still, I won't think mixing it is gonna be a major problem if you're looking for a creative solution. In a videoclip, you could play around with b/w and filters in post-production, thereby covering up quality differences in the footage.

2. Look at this video from another forum member named Jad. YouTube - Fireflies Vision Clip
See rolling shutter? I don't. I think the rolling shutter issue is no big problem in the real world, but I think once you notice it, then you're going to notice it every time, and it's stuck on you like an itching insect. However, I think your clients won't notice, and from what I hear, even the famous Red seems to have rolling shutter issues.

3. Most people convert slowmo 720p to 1080p footage in post, rather than downconvert everything to 720p.

4. Lots of topics on the audio issue; since I don't have my 7D yet, can't speak from experience. Most users use an external audio recorder, which could also give you a lot of flexibility. I think you have to test for yourself, if you plug your mics directly in the 7D and it sounds okay to you, it's fine. Since I don't need XLR inputs yet, I think I'm going with the Zoom H2, which is a lot cheaper than the Zoom H4N.

5. The Canon 18-135 kitlens is reasonbly good, although not very fast, which means you need extra lights when shooting indoors. Outdoors you should be fine. I'm thinking of getting the Canon 17-55IS or the Tamron 17-50VC, both 2.8 lenses thus faster. Also the Canon 15-85IS seems to be a great lens, but with the same limitations as the 18-135. But I think you can use your Nikon primes as well with a convert (don't know for sure).

All in all, from what I gather here, the 7D really is a fantastic camera, capable of shooting footage which will leave you (and your clients) behind in shock and awe. I think it really is the next level. But you have to tame it first, and learn its quirks and needs. After all, it's NOT a dedicated videocamera, so it takes a different approach than an ordinary HDV-cam.
And as always, it's not the paintbrush which makes a great painting, it's the painter...

I've been filming for years now with regular cams, from 8mm to HDV, as a serious hobbyist (I'm by no means a professional yet), but I've done a few scripted short movies, and every shoot I learn a little more, get a little bit more professional, using lights, better audio, color correction. I'm beginning to feel restrained by the limitations of HDV (quality wise, DOF, lowlight) and therefore I feel ready to make the next leap, for the 7D...

[Jon Fairhurst]

For audio, either get an external recorder or use an active preamp. On the 5D2, you can use Magic Lantern to disable the auto-gain-control. It's not available yet for the 7D. In the meantime, you can jam the 7D with a signal in one channel to disable the AGC.

You can view my six-part series here: vimeo.com/5370880

[Brandon Paschal]

The audio review was extremely informative. If only all media had such thorough reviews. Thanks for sharing. I'll be looking into the different mounting configurations that the juicedlink or H4N may provide. The combined audio/video that the JL provides is certainly enticing.

Thanks again ...

--Brandon