Possible Kit. Any comments? at DVinfo.net

Daniel Weber · November 12th, 2009, 11:16 AM

I am looking at getting a Canon 7D to use for some Documentary work that I will be doing in Western African in December and February.

Here is what I am considering:

Canon 7D
4 extra batteries
Zacuto Rapid Fire
Zacuto Z Finder (or IDC/Hoodman if I can't get the Zacuto)
Singh-Ray Vari-ND filter
Manfrotto 562B monopod
Canon 17-55 2.8 IS USM lens
Canon 70-200 4.0 L lens
Zoom 4n audio recorder

I would then add in either a Canon 50mm f1.4 lens or a Sigma 30mm 1.4 lens to the kit.

My other option would be to get the 5D with the Canon 24-105 4.0 L lens with the Sigma 30mm 1.4 lens.

The advantage of the 5D is better in low light, full frame and audio controls with the Magic Lantern firmware.

The 7D kit give me longer lenses, better weather proof camera, faster FPS for stills. The disadvantage is the lack of manual audio controls. This isn't big for shooting interviews, but can be a hassle on ambient audio.

I don't really want to have a Beachtek or Juicedlink box hanging off the camera.

I will also be taking a Canon HFS100 as a backup/B roll camera.

I am open to any and all comments!!!

Thanks,

Daniel Weber

David Chapman · November 12th, 2009, 12:10 PM

Hey Daniel,

It's sounding like you have a good bundle there. I can say that the 17-55 f/2.8 is a great lens—even handheld (with IS on).

I have the 50mm f/1.4 also and I get amazing shots in low light (but no IS so I need a monopod if I don't lug my tripod around). The lens is so small and you can't hold the camera like you do with the loner 17-55 for handheld.

Personally, I don't like the Beachtek/Juiced Link options only because it tethers the audio to the camera's CF card and you aren't free to record audio separately. I went the Zoom H4n route and I can have the freedom to go and get audio samples without the 7D—ambient, VO's, special sound effects, etc.

I'm not syncing up the audio in the timeline manually, though. The line out from the H4n will go to the audio in on the 7D (yes with auto gain). That way, I have 2 versions of the same source—one clean and one in the 7D. I will then use PluralEyes to sync the clips from the 7D to the clean audio source from the H4n. It sounds like a hassle, but it's actually pretty quick. If you start/stop every 10-12 min, Plural Eyes will only have to sync up 2-3 times if it's a short interview.

As far as the 5DM2, I would go for it if I was a high-end photographer and had glass already. The 7D was an easier move for me from the 40D and I'm more of a filmmaker than photographer. I like the 24p over the full-frame sensor and I can't tell that much of a difference in low-light capabilities (although some pixel pushers can :-P ).

Daniel Weber · November 12th, 2009, 01:02 PM

David,

Thanks for your feedback.

One thing that concerns me is the overheating issue with the 7D. I shoot 80% of my stuff in hot climates overseas and it sounds like just a little bit of heat with the 7D will cause it to overheat. I have heard that the 5D will overheat as well but not as much as the 7D.

If I knew when Canon was going to release their firmware update for the 5D, it would really help me make my decision.

By the way which CF cards do you use? I was looking at the Sandisk Extreme III 32 gig or 16 gig cards.

Thanks,

Daniel Weber

Andy Wilkinson · November 12th, 2009, 02:18 PM

Kit list looks good. 17-55 Canon USM EF-S lens is a beauty for sure - love mine! And yes, lots of extra batteries are good as 7D goes through them pretty quickly when shooting video, especially if you use Live View as well.

Sandisk Extreme III 16GB is what I have (only one so far, another coming) but don't forget that 16GigaBytes in reality is something closer to 14GB (due to the quirks of how these things are worked out and marketed by memory makers). At 45-50MegaBits/second for HD video you soon fill them - so 32GB looks a bit more appealing (assuming you can afford them). 4GB clips tend to around 11 minute mark, give or take some (1080p 25fps).

The big question/concern is the one about potential overheating in a hot climate. Good data (rather than haphazard random anecdotes) is only now starting to become available about this issue. My advice would be to WAIT a little - until it's clearer (if you can wait) - I've not had any issues yet, personally, but I'm not using my new 7D much (too busy on existing projects - I won't use a new camera on any important paying work until I'm totally confident with it and it's reliability in front of a client). I have only used it so far as back-up/non-critical capture for clients - and not for any extended period....I've only one 16GB card remember! It's also pretty cold in England in November - so the fact that I've had no overheating problems, so far, needs to be taken into context.

It's looking like you need to shoot more or less continuously for over an hour, maybe 75-90 minutes to see this issue...but, like I said, good info is only just starting to emerge. In very hot climates this time may well, of course, shorten. Check out the thread on here for latest info, linked below for future convenience:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eo...o-heating.html

Brian Luce · November 12th, 2009, 02:31 PM

You might check the Tascam. I like it better than the Zoom. It allows for separate level control and has redundant power supply. Only $30 more.

Nigel Barker · November 12th, 2009, 02:57 PM

If you go for a Fader ND variable neutral density filter rather than the rather overpriced Singh-Ray Vari-ND you will be able to buy one for each lens & have about $200 change

fader nd, great deals on Cameras Photo on eBay!

Daniel Weber · November 12th, 2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Wilkinson

Kit list looks good. 17-55 Canon USM EF-S lens is a beauty for sure - love mine! And yes, lots of extra batteries are good as 7D goes through them pretty quickly when shooting video, especially if you use Live View as well.

Sandisk Extreme III 16GB is what I have (only one so far, another coming) but don't forget that 16GigaBytes in reality is something closer to 14GB (due to the quirks of how these things are worked out and marketed by memory makers). At 45-50MegaBits/second for HD video you soon fill them - so 32GB looks a bit more appealing (assuming you can afford them). 4GB clips tend to around 11 minute mark, give or take some (1080p 25fps).

The big question/concern is the one about potential overheating in a hot climate. Good data (rather than haphazard random anecdotes) is only now starting to become available about this issue. My advice would be to WAIT a little - until it's clearer (if you can wait) - I've not had any issues yet, personally, but I'm not using my new 7D much (too busy on existing projects - I won't use a new camera on any important paying work until I'm totally confident with it and it's reliability in front of a client). I have only used it so far as back-up/non-critical capture for clients - and not for any extended period....I've only one 16GB card remember! It's also pretty cold in England in November - so the fact that I've had no overheating problems, so far, needs to be taken into context.

It's looking like you need to shoot more or less continuously for over an hour, maybe 75-90 minutes to see this issue...but, like I said, good info is only just starting to emerge. In very hot climates this time may well, of course, shorten. Check out the thread on here for latest info, linked below for future convenience:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eo...o-heating.html

Andy,

Thanks for the feedback. I would like to wait, but I have a shoot in December that will then continue on in February. I need to make a decision soon. I read today that Canon is saying the 5D firmware update will come out sometime in January. Not much help for me when I am shooting in December.

I guess that the choice is this: overheating vs. fixed 30p

I have a lot of footage that is shot with EX1's and Z1's that will be part of this project so the 7D is looking like the winner.

I have my concerns about the Canon 70-200 F4 L lens though as it seems to be pretty old. I can't afford the cost or the size and weight of the F 2.8 lens.

Any other options in this price range for a long telephoto lens?

Thanks,

Daniel Weber

Daniel Weber · November 12th, 2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Barker

If you go for a Fader ND variable neutral density filter rather than the rather overpriced Singh-Ray Vari-ND you will be able to buy one for each lens & have about $200 change

fader nd, great deals on Cameras Photo on eBay!

Thanks for the link!!! I will check them out.

Daniel Weber

Nigel Barker · November 13th, 2009, 01:22 AM

Here in the south of France last summer (somewhat warmer than England in November:-) our experience with overheating on the 5D was that it only occurred if the camera was left in direct sunlight for a length of time. Shooting in normal temperatures (up to 35C/100F) overheating was never a problem provided one didn't let the too much direct sun onto the camera.

November 12th, 2009, 11:16 AM	#1
Daniel Weber Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 696	Possible Kit. Any comments? I am looking at getting a Canon 7D to use for some Documentary work that I will be doing in Western African in December and February. Here is what I am considering: Canon 7D 4 extra batteries Zacuto Rapid Fire Zacuto Z Finder (or IDC/Hoodman if I can't get the Zacuto) Singh-Ray Vari-ND filter Manfrotto 562B monopod Canon 17-55 2.8 IS USM lens Canon 70-200 4.0 L lens Zoom 4n audio recorder I would then add in either a Canon 50mm f1.4 lens or a Sigma 30mm 1.4 lens to the kit. My other option would be to get the 5D with the Canon 24-105 4.0 L lens with the Sigma 30mm 1.4 lens. The advantage of the 5D is better in low light, full frame and audio controls with the Magic Lantern firmware. The 7D kit give me longer lenses, better weather proof camera, faster FPS for stills. The disadvantage is the lack of manual audio controls. This isn't big for shooting interviews, but can be a hassle on ambient audio. I don't really want to have a Beachtek or Juicedlink box hanging off the camera. I will also be taking a Canon HFS100 as a backup/B roll camera. I am open to any and all comments!!! Thanks, Daniel Weber

November 12th, 2009, 12:10 PM	#2
David Chapman Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 346	Hey Daniel, It's sounding like you have a good bundle there. I can say that the 17-55 f/2.8 is a great lens—even handheld (with IS on). I have the 50mm f/1.4 also and I get amazing shots in low light (but no IS so I need a monopod if I don't lug my tripod around). The lens is so small and you can't hold the camera like you do with the loner 17-55 for handheld. Personally, I don't like the Beachtek/Juiced Link options only because it tethers the audio to the camera's CF card and you aren't free to record audio separately. I went the Zoom H4n route and I can have the freedom to go and get audio samples without the 7D—ambient, VO's, special sound effects, etc. I'm not syncing up the audio in the timeline manually, though. The line out from the H4n will go to the audio in on the 7D (yes with auto gain). That way, I have 2 versions of the same source—one clean and one in the 7D. I will then use PluralEyes to sync the clips from the 7D to the clean audio source from the H4n. It sounds like a hassle, but it's actually pretty quick. If you start/stop every 10-12 min, Plural Eyes will only have to sync up 2-3 times if it's a short interview. As far as the 5DM2, I would go for it if I was a high-end photographer and had glass already. The 7D was an easier move for me from the 40D and I'm more of a filmmaker than photographer. I like the 24p over the full-frame sensor and I can't tell that much of a difference in low-light capabilities (although some pixel pushers can :-P ). __________________ David Chapman www.davechapfilms.com

November 12th, 2009, 02:18 PM	#4
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Kit list looks good. 17-55 Canon USM EF-S lens is a beauty for sure - love mine! And yes, lots of extra batteries are good as 7D goes through them pretty quickly when shooting video, especially if you use Live View as well. Sandisk Extreme III 16GB is what I have (only one so far, another coming) but don't forget that 16GigaBytes in reality is something closer to 14GB (due to the quirks of how these things are worked out and marketed by memory makers). At 45-50MegaBits/second for HD video you soon fill them - so 32GB looks a bit more appealing (assuming you can afford them). 4GB clips tend to around 11 minute mark, give or take some (1080p 25fps). The big question/concern is the one about potential overheating in a hot climate. Good data (rather than haphazard random anecdotes) is only now starting to become available about this issue. My advice would be to WAIT a little - until it's clearer (if you can wait) - I've not had any issues yet, personally, but I'm not using my new 7D much (too busy on existing projects - I won't use a new camera on any important paying work until I'm totally confident with it and it's reliability in front of a client). I have only used it so far as back-up/non-critical capture for clients - and not for any extended period....I've only one 16GB card remember! It's also pretty cold in England in November - so the fact that I've had no overheating problems, so far, needs to be taken into context. It's looking like you need to shoot more or less continuously for over an hour, maybe 75-90 minutes to see this issue...but, like I said, good info is only just starting to emerge. In very hot climates this time may well, of course, shorten. Check out the thread on here for latest info, linked below for future convenience: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eo...o-heating.html __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

November 12th, 2009, 01:02 PM	#3
Daniel Weber Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 696	David, Thanks for your feedback. One thing that concerns me is the overheating issue with the 7D. I shoot 80% of my stuff in hot climates overseas and it sounds like just a little bit of heat with the 7D will cause it to overheat. I have heard that the 5D will overheat as well but not as much as the 7D. If I knew when Canon was going to release their firmware update for the 5D, it would really help me make my decision. By the way which CF cards do you use? I was looking at the Sandisk Extreme III 32 gig or 16 gig cards. Thanks, Daniel Weber

November 12th, 2009, 02:31 PM	#5
Brian Luce Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,290	You might check the Tascam. I like it better than the Zoom. It allows for separate level control and has redundant power supply. Only $30 more.

November 12th, 2009, 02:57 PM	#6
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	If you go for a Fader ND variable neutral density filter rather than the rather overpriced Singh-Ray Vari-ND you will be able to buy one for each lens & have about $200 change fader nd, great deals on Cameras Photo on eBay!

November 13th, 2009, 01:22 AM	#9
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	Here in the south of France last summer (somewhat warmer than England in November:-) our experience with overheating on the 5D was that it only occurred if the camera was left in direct sunlight for a length of time. Shooting in normal temperatures (up to 35C/100F) overheating was never a problem provided one didn't let the too much direct sun onto the camera.