All 7D settings for shooting video

David Chapman · November 27th, 2009, 08:53 PM

Sweet guys. I have a few scenes setup to go through some filmmaking 101 too (although I am explaining lighting scenarios in all the scenes). There are a few surprise characters involved, but I really want to focus on creating that "cinematic" shot.

I'm planning on showing some tips with footage in Final Cut Pro as well as After Effects if that doesn't seem to far away from the filmmaking side of things (going back and forth from live action to screen capture on the computer).

Gerald Baillgergeau · November 28th, 2009, 01:00 PM

I've seen tons of posts about messing with the picture settings (sharpening, contrast) .. My question is does it matter which quality setting you use in movie mode? Will RAW produce a better image then the L setting or is there a default value set by the camera in movie mode?

David Chapman · November 28th, 2009, 01:44 PM

Original RAW image data is never changed by using Picture Styles or other controls in the camera. These styles and/or settings in camera only affect JPEG or h.264 files because the camera is converting those images on the fly to a compressed file. The RAW image file includes data detailing your camera settings, but can be removed or changes with RAW image editing software (Bridge, Photoshop, Aperture, Lightroom, etc). For JPEG and movie files, you don't have wiggle room to change later. That's why it's best to have the camera create an image with as wide of a gamut as possible so you have room to compress later.

Try this:
Neutral (picture mode)
Sharpness (all the way down—left)
Contrast (all the way down—left)
Saturation (down 2 notches—left)

You may want to do some tests to see what works best for you—especially if you don't want to do post color correction on your videos. All of this "flattening" is to give you the best possible image to grade later, but doesn't look good if you don't color correct later.

PS: When shooting RAW, your white balance doesn't matter. You do need to pay attention to this with JPG and movie files. AWB should never be used for video.

Brian Luce · November 28th, 2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon McGuffin

I vote the following in order of preference most to least...

1. Lighting your scene for 7d
2. Bare necessities for....
3. 7D vs EX1 comparison.
4. 7D for Run & Gun
5. Getting that shaky cam...
6. Shooting for Green Screening
7. Shooting for Post Color...

Do a really good job, post it somewhere and charge people $20 ($10 for your Dvinfo pals! <wink>) and I'd pay...

Jon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerald Baillgergeau

I've seen tons of posts about messing with the picture settings (sharpening, contrast) .. My question is does it matter which quality setting you use in movie mode? Will RAW produce a better image then the L setting or is there a default value set by the camera in movie mode?

I think what David Chapman is saying is that the 7d does NOT record RAW. I believe that's something on the 7d wishlist.

Gerald Baillgergeau · November 28th, 2009, 03:22 PM

OK.. Im sure is was a newbie question but I just upgraded from a T1i and full manual control is a whole new world .. i got so use to trying to manipulate to exposure by pointing the camera at a dark or light spot on set.. but maybe its me but the T1i seems a lil' sharper.. Am i smoking crack or what? im still playing around with it, ill be running test all weekend.. i'll post results later

David Chapman · November 28th, 2009, 04:13 PM

Gerald, are you asking about Picture Profiles or image quality (Raw, sRaw, Jpeg, etc)?

You can only shoot quicktime in movie mode (h.264), but you can shoot anything else in photo mode.
Brian, what do you mean you can't record Raw? Raw stills! ;-)

About the picture profiles:
It doesn't matter what your picture profile is when shooting RAW. It does matter what your end goal is when shooting video or Jpeg (do you want to post color correct or not).

As far as the sharpness, I really believe there is some enhanced sharpening by default with the T1i or at least that the scale is different from low to high. To get images that don't seem as soft on the 7D, try upping the Sharpness in the picture profiles (pick one) a few notches. Maybe you should take a photo at every picture profile and at each sharpening adjustment to see the difference.

My take? Canon made the T1i sharpen more digitally in camera for consumers and the 7D more "normal" as the pro Photoshop photographers always unsharp mask anyways.

Update:
Try setting the 7D's sharpness to 2 to match the 50D and 3 to match the T1i. Other people have noted that the anti-alias filter is a little stronger relative to the individual pixels on this sensor (compared to the T1i or 50D).

Gerald Baillgergeau · November 28th, 2009, 05:28 PM

oh believe when i say im not comparing the T to the D .. there's much more detail in the imagery .. I'm doing some scene tests this weekend. i'll be sure to post my results when done.. So far, im not mad at the 7d..

Tim Kay · December 31st, 2009, 01:09 AM

It's been a month - hows that training video coming along Dave ?

David Chapman · December 31st, 2009, 10:19 AM

Hey Andy,

It's actually coming along really well. I should have a site up soon with a "preview" of the video. I'll keep you guys posted on here.

Jordan Berry · January 21st, 2010, 05:42 PM

David,

You mention using whole number ISOs instead of 160/320/640/1250, which show the lowest amount of noise with the cap on. What is the reason for this?

Thanks.

Keith Moreau · January 21st, 2010, 06:14 PM

David, since this is now the David Chapman ISO Q&A thread, would you ever recommend the '160 multiples' ISOs? What about if you are in a dimly-lit situation where you're just not going to get an optimum range of luminance? Would the 160 multiples help reduce perceived noise?

There is something in the Sony EX1, which I also own, called 'negative gain' that I had several discussions with experts over on that forum, and the conclusion was that if you didn't need the headroom, using the -3db setting reduced noise in darker areas of the image, but also lowered headroom. My argument was if you're going to lower the headroom, why not just pump up the overall light reaching the sensor?

The analogy that made sense to me was that the 'negative gain' setting was like a attenuating the input less on an audio mixer before the preamp. You want to increase the signal as much as possible to the sensor, which overcomes the inherent noise in the sensor, but it will 'overload' at the high end faster. If you can live with that, you get lower noise, but at the expense of headroom. Please comment if you have an opinion about this.

Anyway, if you can addres this

Chris Westerstrom · January 21st, 2010, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Chapman

My testing is becoming so comprehensive, I'm thinking of turning it into a training video:

"Independent Filmmaking and the 7D"

While I'm not a news journalist or documentarian, I do have a background in visual effects and video production—which should make this very interesting (green screening, motion tracking, basic and creative lighting, etc). I'm covering all of the "tech stuff" for some of the photographers coming into video but aiming to present it all visually so you really understand what looks like what and which rules to keep in mind.

What would you guys like to see covered?

Here are a few topics:
Bare necessities for 7D filmmaking (not the endorsement list!)
7D for Run N Gun
Lighting your scene for the 7D
Shooting for post color correction (grading)
Shooting for green screening
Getting that shaky cam without the jello
7D vs EX1 comparison

I didn't want to just explain camera settings, but rather show you how I shoot, edit, grade and deliver. Any thoughts?

I'll buy it, I bought Philip Blooms which was pricey but extremely helpful.

I did however, find heaps of stuff missing, like the basics.
Setting exposure, white balancing, the LCD's auto function - my first tests were recorded much darker than what it appeared on the LCD screen and so on.

I like your idea of showing how you shoot, edit, grade and deliver, but that was what I found to be lacking.

In short, a guide for video people who are discovering the DSLR's - what's different?
Your typical HDV camera is set up with Iris, Shutter Speed, Gain, White balance and with a responsive LCD screen, it was real easy to set correct exposure.

I realize their is a whole new world of controls and creativity once I can gain control of these functions on the 7d, but just a very simple basic overview would still help me tremendously.

Maybe you can incorporate it in your 'how you shoot' chapter.

Anyways, that was my 2 cents, sorry if it is overkill basic, but I wrote this hoping it will help us both!

David Chapman · January 22nd, 2010, 11:58 AM

Hey guys, sorry I missed replying. I hadn't seen this thread pop up in a while!

@Jordan
You are referring to the "lens cap test" which doesn't show related noise, but highlight clipping. There was a test months ago where people looked at the results and said "hey, there is hardly any noise in these shots! These are the ISO settings to use all the time! Well, the 160 sets are actually cutting off a section of the highlights, which is why the seem cleaner. This is a larger topic and demonstration I am working on to make sense of it. Right now, only a few people have tried to explain it and it's way too technical to appreciate or make sense of for the majority of users.

@Keith
I hope this hasn't become the "David Chapman" thread at all! Haha.
I do have some tips on when to use what that I'm working to show. The thing is, more often than not, I use the 200, 400, 800 rule to keep highlights. There are situations where the 160 set will work better, but I'm showing what those shots look like. After seeing examples, this "when do I use which and why" won't be as much of an issue. The 100, 200, 400, 800 works for newer DSLR people coming in since there are far too many variables to take in. But, yes, I will be getting to that in a chapter. You did explain this well with the -3db gain, but most people still don't understand that scenario either.

@Chris
It looks like I am showing everything you missed. I'm not trying to make a duplicate of what Philip Bloom has produced at all. I'm going a different direction and showing more of the "how do I use this to make my own independent film productions?" angle. There are some things to cover related to video in general as well as post workflows. Since my background is image acquisition, post and visual effects, this will cover a lot of the technical aspects of dealing with the footage, on set decisions and some cool things to do in post. Some of the technical will help with live events (and I intend on adding some of my tricks from over 100+ weddings), but a lot of the shots I've setup are pre-planned (actors in a scene, filming a specific sequence of shots, etc). I do have some wedding tips, but I won't be on location at a wedding pointing out what to do.

Zachary Mattson · February 1st, 2010, 03:00 PM

Hey David, this is going to sound extremely amateur-ish (as I am to the world of SLR), but where is the option to turn off highlight tone priority? I looked through the menu and can't seem to find it. Your posts have been very helpful, thanks!!

Keith Moreau · February 1st, 2010, 03:03 PM

From what I recall you might need to be in 'still mode' (video/still switch rotated to still) before you see these options. I know it's fooled a few people.

November 27th, 2009, 08:53 PM	#31
David Chapman Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 346	Sweet guys. I have a few scenes setup to go through some filmmaking 101 too (although I am explaining lighting scenarios in all the scenes). There are a few surprise characters involved, but I really want to focus on creating that "cinematic" shot. I'm planning on showing some tips with footage in Final Cut Pro as well as After Effects if that doesn't seem to far away from the filmmaking side of things (going back and forth from live action to screen capture on the computer). __________________ David Chapman www.davechapfilms.com Last edited by David Chapman; November 27th, 2009 at 09:36 PM.

November 28th, 2009, 01:00 PM	#32
Gerald Baillgergeau Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Santa Monica, Ca Posts: 62	RAW, L, S etc..????? I've seen tons of posts about messing with the picture settings (sharpening, contrast) .. My question is does it matter which quality setting you use in movie mode? Will RAW produce a better image then the L setting or is there a default value set by the camera in movie mode?

November 28th, 2009, 01:44 PM	#33
David Chapman Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 346	Original RAW image data is never changed by using Picture Styles or other controls in the camera. These styles and/or settings in camera only affect JPEG or h.264 files because the camera is converting those images on the fly to a compressed file. The RAW image file includes data detailing your camera settings, but can be removed or changes with RAW image editing software (Bridge, Photoshop, Aperture, Lightroom, etc). For JPEG and movie files, you don't have wiggle room to change later. That's why it's best to have the camera create an image with as wide of a gamut as possible so you have room to compress later. Try this: Neutral (picture mode) Sharpness (all the way down—left) Contrast (all the way down—left) Saturation (down 2 notches—left) You may want to do some tests to see what works best for you—especially if you don't want to do post color correction on your videos. All of this "flattening" is to give you the best possible image to grade later, but doesn't look good if you don't color correct later. PS: When shooting RAW, your white balance doesn't matter. You do need to pay attention to this with JPG and movie files. AWB should never be used for video. __________________ David Chapman www.davechapfilms.com

November 28th, 2009, 04:13 PM	#36
David Chapman Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 346	Gerald, are you asking about Picture Profiles or image quality (Raw, sRaw, Jpeg, etc)? You can only shoot quicktime in movie mode (h.264), but you can shoot anything else in photo mode. Brian, what do you mean you can't record Raw? Raw stills! ;-) About the picture profiles: It doesn't matter what your picture profile is when shooting RAW. It does matter what your end goal is when shooting video or Jpeg (do you want to post color correct or not). As far as the sharpness, I really believe there is some enhanced sharpening by default with the T1i or at least that the scale is different from low to high. To get images that don't seem as soft on the 7D, try upping the Sharpness in the picture profiles (pick one) a few notches. Maybe you should take a photo at every picture profile and at each sharpening adjustment to see the difference. My take? Canon made the T1i sharpen more digitally in camera for consumers and the 7D more "normal" as the pro Photoshop photographers always unsharp mask anyways. Update: Try setting the 7D's sharpness to 2 to match the 50D and 3 to match the T1i. Other people have noted that the anti-alias filter is a little stronger relative to the individual pixels on this sensor (compared to the T1i or 50D). __________________ David Chapman www.davechapfilms.com

November 28th, 2009, 05:28 PM	#37
Gerald Baillgergeau Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Santa Monica, Ca Posts: 62	oh believe when i say im not comparing the T to the D .. there's much more detail in the imagery .. I'm doing some scene tests this weekend. i'll be sure to post my results when done.. So far, im not mad at the 7d.. Last edited by Gerald Baillgergeau; November 28th, 2009 at 08:23 PM.

November 28th, 2009, 03:22 PM	#35
Gerald Baillgergeau Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Santa Monica, Ca Posts: 62	OK.. Im sure is was a newbie question but I just upgraded from a T1i and full manual control is a whole new world .. i got so use to trying to manipulate to exposure by pointing the camera at a dark or light spot on set.. but maybe its me but the T1i seems a lil' sharper.. Am i smoking crack or what? im still playing around with it, ill be running test all weekend.. i'll post results later

December 31st, 2009, 01:09 AM	#38
Tim Kay Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: SF & LA Posts: 195	It's been a month - hows that training video coming along Dave ? __________________ Event Production Services \| Video Production San Francisco

December 31st, 2009, 10:19 AM	#39
David Chapman Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 346	Hey Andy, It's actually coming along really well. I should have a site up soon with a "preview" of the video. I'll keep you guys posted on here. __________________ David Chapman www.davechapfilms.com

January 21st, 2010, 05:42 PM	#40
Jordan Berry Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 128	David, You mention using whole number ISOs instead of 160/320/640/1250, which show the lowest amount of noise with the cap on. What is the reason for this? Thanks. __________________ BerryGood Video LLC Kansas City, Missouri

January 21st, 2010, 06:14 PM	#41
Keith Moreau Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Brisbane, California Posts: 530	David, since this is now the David Chapman ISO Q&A thread, would you ever recommend the '160 multiples' ISOs? What about if you are in a dimly-lit situation where you're just not going to get an optimum range of luminance? Would the 160 multiples help reduce perceived noise? There is something in the Sony EX1, which I also own, called 'negative gain' that I had several discussions with experts over on that forum, and the conclusion was that if you didn't need the headroom, using the -3db setting reduced noise in darker areas of the image, but also lowered headroom. My argument was if you're going to lower the headroom, why not just pump up the overall light reaching the sensor? The analogy that made sense to me was that the 'negative gain' setting was like a attenuating the input less on an audio mixer before the preamp. You want to increase the signal as much as possible to the sensor, which overcomes the inherent noise in the sensor, but it will 'overload' at the high end faster. If you can live with that, you get lower noise, but at the expense of headroom. Please comment if you have an opinion about this. Anyway, if you can addres this

January 22nd, 2010, 11:58 AM	#43
David Chapman Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 346	Hey guys, sorry I missed replying. I hadn't seen this thread pop up in a while! @Jordan You are referring to the "lens cap test" which doesn't show related noise, but highlight clipping. There was a test months ago where people looked at the results and said "hey, there is hardly any noise in these shots! These are the ISO settings to use all the time! Well, the 160 sets are actually cutting off a section of the highlights, which is why the seem cleaner. This is a larger topic and demonstration I am working on to make sense of it. Right now, only a few people have tried to explain it and it's way too technical to appreciate or make sense of for the majority of users. @Keith I hope this hasn't become the "David Chapman" thread at all! Haha. I do have some tips on when to use what that I'm working to show. The thing is, more often than not, I use the 200, 400, 800 rule to keep highlights. There are situations where the 160 set will work better, but I'm showing what those shots look like. After seeing examples, this "when do I use which and why" won't be as much of an issue. The 100, 200, 400, 800 works for newer DSLR people coming in since there are far too many variables to take in. But, yes, I will be getting to that in a chapter. You did explain this well with the -3db gain, but most people still don't understand that scenario either. @Chris It looks like I am showing everything you missed. I'm not trying to make a duplicate of what Philip Bloom has produced at all. I'm going a different direction and showing more of the "how do I use this to make my own independent film productions?" angle. There are some things to cover related to video in general as well as post workflows. Since my background is image acquisition, post and visual effects, this will cover a lot of the technical aspects of dealing with the footage, on set decisions and some cool things to do in post. Some of the technical will help with live events (and I intend on adding some of my tricks from over 100+ weddings), but a lot of the shots I've setup are pre-planned (actors in a scene, filming a specific sequence of shots, etc). I do have some wedding tips, but I won't be on location at a wedding pointing out what to do. __________________ David Chapman www.davechapfilms.com

February 1st, 2010, 03:00 PM	#44
Zachary Mattson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 43	Hey David, this is going to sound extremely amateur-ish (as I am to the world of SLR), but where is the option to turn off highlight tone priority? I looked through the menu and can't seem to find it. Your posts have been very helpful, thanks!!

February 1st, 2010, 03:03 PM	#45
Keith Moreau Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Brisbane, California Posts: 530	From what I recall you might need to be in 'still mode' (video/still switch rotated to still) before you see these options. I know it's fooled a few people.