7D vs 5D vs GH1 vs Vixia vs HVX200 Quick Shootout

Dan Lim · October 29th, 2009, 04:53 PM

Hi!
I've watched the videos of the 5D and 7D and I did not know that the zoom function in video mode ...
I have an EOS 7D, but I do not know how to zoom in video without losing focus, how to zoom while maintaining the focus please ?
It"s important for me !
Thanks
Daniel

Steev Dinkins · October 29th, 2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Leith

Interesting... I noticed from your shots that the codec looked pretty ropey for the GH1 (looking at the latitude tests it doesn't seem to handle underexposed detail and gradients at all well)... But are you saying it's better at 720p?

I'd love a GH1 if it didn't have such a rubbish bitrate!

You are right - you can see strange artifacts on footage from the GH1 at 1080p - the worst in my opinion is the mud during fast motion, camera handling, zooming, or complex images.

However, I'm finding that the image is nearly superior to the 7D in 720p mode in resolution clarity, and lack of aliasing.

Latitude wise, again you're right - the GH1 doesn't handle highlights as well as the 7D. This is the case regardless of 1080 or 720 mode.

Steev Dinkins · October 29th, 2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Shealy

Steev, I've found the 7D to have pretty crazy shallow DOF, really too shallow to use in almost any real situation.

I totally agree. You can get crazy DOF on the 7D. But as you can see in the tests, the 5D is significantly shallower. I think you can put it to use if you have enough control over your shoot, or you have the luxury to wing it and edit around the terrible focusing. Certainly it would be foolish to shoot mission critical once in a lifetime events with tremendously shallow DOF. I've been trying to hit on this point more than once. Which leads to your next points....

[QUOTE=Roger Shealy;1439917I've loaned my XHA1 out, but I've been dying to do some comparison tests to the 7D. The 7D has incredible DOF control, but there are some other areas I really miss with the XHA1, like gradual aperture changes and the 20X L-Glass! I believe the 7D fits my style better for artistic pieces, but I'd be slow to say it is a better video camera than the XHA1.[/QUOTE]

Yes indeed on that zoom range! You just can't beat that with one of these DSLRs. The GH1 is the closest to try, but it's not constant aperture and only 10x. We shouldn't forget the pro audio on most camcorders that beats the snot out of the 5D/7D.

The GH1 actually pulls off some competitive audio with its on-board stereo mic which matches some of the best audio you'll get out of pro camcorders though. However, there's no XLR inputs, monitoring, nor metering. These DSLRs don't have ND filters built-in either. And while I'm at it... the 5D/7D are a joke for in-camera playback of the video - first/last frame and play? No fast-forward or rewind. Ugh... The GH1 gets it right in this regard - it has proper playback controls.

Soooo many things to compare and consider. Fun fun fun!!

Steev Dinkins · October 29th, 2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Lim

Hi!
I've watched the videos of the 5D and 7D and I did not know that the zoom function in video mode ...
I have an EOS 7D, but I do not know how to zoom in video without losing focus, how to zoom while maintaining the focus please ?
It"s important for me !
Thanks
Daniel

The key thing I've discovered regarding this is obtaining lenses that are "parfocal". There's actually a good thread on this somewhere on DVinfo. It's hard to find this specification listed on any photography lenses.

On the key lenses I purchased for the 5D/7D, I made sure they are essentially parfocal. The Sigma 24-70mm f2.8 is parfocal, except for a little inaccuracy near it's minimum focusing range (focusing up close). The Canon 17-55mm f2.8 (too my gleeful surprise) is also parfocal, with the same exception of some inaccuracy focusing up close.

The GH1 kit lens is slightly parfocal - as you can see it keeps focus until the far end of telephoto and then it loses it and goes way out of focus (it couldn't focus that close while zoomed in that for. Otherwise, I think it's completely parfocal, provided you are far enough away to focus all the way zoomed in. So, in other words... this lens doesn't have a constant minimum focus distance. The 2 previous mentioned lenses for the Canon do.

The Vixia as with most camcorders worth a damn, is also parfocal, but it also has varying minimum focus for sure. For example, at wide, you can focus macro, but as you zoom in, it can't.

The HVX200 by far is the most superior performing zoom lens for video out of these 5 cameras.

Roger Shealy · October 29th, 2009, 06:28 PM

Great points Steev. I agree with the advantages of the pro video recorders having features that are very useful.

I also find that when doing many types of work, having a great DSLR for stills is a huge blessing, so in that arena the 5D/7D beats the snot out of the video cams. It's really a matter of what type of work you are doing and how many cameras you can afford to keep handy. If I need sound, long play times, or there aren't "redo's" on the action, I prefer the video cams. If its a controlled situation and sound isn't much of a factor or I can carry separate audio gear.... it depends. If I'm taking a trip and want to create some creative pieces to capture the moment, say a car show, museum, hike...., or short stylistic snippets; 7D.

So Steev, if you get asked to make a 30 second commercial paying $5K showing a couple walking on a trail, eating a great candlelight dinner, playing in leaves with kids, all voiced over and piped in audio. Which cam from your arsenal would you use, if only one?

Steev Dinkins · October 30th, 2009, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Shealy

So Steev, if you get asked to make a 30 second commercial paying $5K showing a couple walking on a trail, eating a great candlelight dinner, playing in leaves with kits, all voiced over and piped in audio. Which cam from your arsenal would you use, if only one?

I'd use the 5DMkII for certain - if there was voice spoken by actors, I'd have the actors voice dub to conformed 24p. If I needed to have on-set dialogue to be recorded and sync'd (can't do dialogue replacement), I'd use the 7D. Why not the GH1? I must say - the weak codec.

Later today, hopefully we can ascertain how much and how soon we can say we'd use the Red Scarlet. ;)

I have a shoot tomorrow at a live event in San Francisco, and I've deliberated on what cam(s) to bring and use. I decided on the 5D, GH1, and Vixia. Yep, I'm leaving the 7D behind on this one due to excessive noise in low light as shown by my tests this evening. The 5D smokes it. So I'd rather have the ultra shallow option (and super clean image), followed by the GH1 for zoom/not as shallow DOF, and the Vixia for more camcorder style ease. I'd prefer an EX1 over the Vixia though - but I wouldn't be able to fit all 3 in a LowePro ProMag Bag!

Also stashed in the bag is the Lumix 20mm 1.7 and a LitePanels mini LED light. All fitting in a bag smaller than the Portabrace I carried my HVX rig in. Wacky!

Roger Shealy · October 30th, 2009, 04:57 AM

Steve,

I was doing some tests with the 7D in low light last night preparing for a project where I want a young couple watching TV (simulated TV). The original had more noise than I'd like, but it cleaned up nicely with noise suppression:

Thank God for patient wives that tolerate their husband's hobbies and even "model" for their crazy tests!

Khoi Pham · October 30th, 2009, 07:18 AM

You should have use ISO 640, it has less noise than ISO500, search on this forum and it will shows you, the one that you want to use is 160, 320, 640, 1250, and so if you need atleast ISO 500, it is better to go to ISO640 because it is cleaner.

Roger Shealy · October 30th, 2009, 07:43 AM

Hmmm, wouldn't have though 640 better. Have to read up on that.

Daniel Browning · October 30th, 2009, 11:42 AM

The "-1/3" ISO settings (160, 320, 640, 1250) are just digital manipulations of the next-highest ISO. 160 is actually ISO 200, darkened by 1/3 stop digitally. This reduces the highlight headroom (blows 1/3 stop more highlights compared to ISO 200 with -1/3 EC), but results in less noise. With default settings, that 1/3 stop of highlights aren't used anyway, you have to lower contrast to get at it. Those ISO settings are like the opposite of HTP: it reduces highlights to get less noise. FYI.

October 29th, 2009, 04:53 PM	#16
Dan Lim New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 24	I need to know how to ... Hi! I've watched the videos of the 5D and 7D and I did not know that the zoom function in video mode ... I have an EOS 7D, but I do not know how to zoom in video without losing focus, how to zoom while maintaining the focus please ? It"s important for me ! Thanks Daniel

October 29th, 2009, 06:28 PM	#20
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	Great points Steev. I agree with the advantages of the pro video recorders having features that are very useful. I also find that when doing many types of work, having a great DSLR for stills is a huge blessing, so in that arena the 5D/7D beats the snot out of the video cams. It's really a matter of what type of work you are doing and how many cameras you can afford to keep handy. If I need sound, long play times, or there aren't "redo's" on the action, I prefer the video cams. If its a controlled situation and sound isn't much of a factor or I can carry separate audio gear.... it depends. If I'm taking a trip and want to create some creative pieces to capture the moment, say a car show, museum, hike...., or short stylistic snippets; 7D. So Steev, if you get asked to make a 30 second commercial paying $5K showing a couple walking on a trail, eating a great candlelight dinner, playing in leaves with kids, all voiced over and piped in audio. Which cam from your arsenal would you use, if only one? Last edited by Roger Shealy; October 30th, 2009 at 04:45 AM.

October 30th, 2009, 04:57 AM	#22
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	Steve, I was doing some tests with the 7D in low light last night preparing for a project where I want a young couple watching TV (simulated TV). The original had more noise than I'd like, but it cleaned up nicely with noise suppression: TV Viewing, direct lighting on Vimeo Thank God for patient wives that tolerate their husband's hobbies and even "model" for their crazy tests! Last edited by Roger Shealy; October 30th, 2009 at 06:44 AM.

October 30th, 2009, 07:18 AM	#23
Khoi Pham Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas Posts: 747	You should have use ISO 640, it has less noise than ISO500, search on this forum and it will shows you, the one that you want to use is 160, 320, 640, 1250, and so if you need atleast ISO 500, it is better to go to ISO640 because it is cleaner. __________________ Khoi Pham www.proeditproductions.com

October 30th, 2009, 07:43 AM	#24
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	Hmmm, wouldn't have though 640 better. Have to read up on that.

October 30th, 2009, 11:42 AM	#25
Daniel Browning Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 949	The "-1/3" ISO settings (160, 320, 640, 1250) are just digital manipulations of the next-highest ISO. 160 is actually ISO 200, darkened by 1/3 stop digitally. This reduces the highlight headroom (blows 1/3 stop more highlights compared to ISO 200 with -1/3 EC), but results in less noise. With default settings, that 1/3 stop of highlights aren't used anyway, you have to lower contrast to get at it. Those ISO settings are like the opposite of HTP: it reduces highlights to get less noise. FYI.