EX-1 user considering 5D/7D

Brian Luce · October 22nd, 2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett Sherman

If you want to get out of the business and just have something you can shoot your personal videos then I think it makes sense to sell the EX1.

If you're still trying to get work, I think you'll have a tough time marketing yourself as a videographer with a 7D. It has serious limitations - especially in the audio realm. I don't know of anyone looking to hire 5D or 7D shooters. I personally wouldn't take my chances with a 7D in a live event.

I know people that make money with video using cameras inferior to the 7d. I've never heard of clients asking for a particular brand/model camera. Most don't know an EX1 from a chainsaw.

Perrone Ford · October 22nd, 2009, 01:10 PM

That may be true, but when you tell them that you'll have to stop for a 5 minute cool-down break in the middle of their hour long conference... they'll get that.

Floris van Eck · October 22nd, 2009, 01:47 PM

I couldn't agree more with your Perrone.

The camera is only a tool in the process. If you find it difficult to earn money with your camera, selling it and getting an inferior camera isn't a very smart business decision. Unless you are an independent filmmaker and have time on your hand to make the 5D/7D work. It just isn't suited for field production work with tight deadlines or long form.

Wing Poon · October 22nd, 2009, 04:38 PM

Thanks for the replies everyone. It's good for me to read a variety of thoughts and I think I've come to the conclusion that I will keep my EX-1. To be honest, I didn't know what the limitations of the 5D/7D were until reading bits and pieces that everyone had mentioned here. I really had to sit and consider what type of video I wanted to shoot and I realized that it doesn't matter what I want to shoot, I just want to be prepared for any kind of scenario. With that in mind, the EX1 really does give me the flexibility to shoot anything that a client may want.

I suppose that I posted the initial question because I loved the look that I was getting out of the Letus, but because of it's size and weight, really made me reconsider whether I wanted to add 10 extra pounds of kit just to get shallow DOF. Not having much knowledge about the 5D/7D, I thought they'd be able to replace the entire rig. But I'm thankful that you guys added bits and pieces of information about these cameras. Yes, they do produce beautiful shots. Yes, they would work extremely well as film camera. But they do have limitations that prevent them from being truly flexible in the video field.

I never really thought of the ergonomics of shooting video with a DSLR. My EX1 isn't the most comfortable to use, but I think it's certainly easier to hold it for longer periods of time than to hold a DSLR out in front of me. A lot of you have also brought up the things about the 5D/7D that I hadn't considered, like adjustable viewfinder, proper audio recording, time codes, built-in NDs, autofocus, etc. I've never shot video with a camera that DIDN'T have those things, so I guess I never considered what it would be like NOT to have those things.

Some of you had mentioned that it'd be a good idea to sell the 35mm in favor for a 5D/7D, and that doesn't really sound out of the question for me. I mean, I love the look I can get out of the Letus, but it's a pain lugging everything around. A lot of shoots I do are naturally lit; rarely do I ever set up lights for any of my shoots. So the light loss is a killer for me with the Letus + lenses. All in all, my 35mm kit (Letus, lenses, rails, supports) have cost me between $2k - $3k. I think I'd be lucky to get even half of that back if I sell it. Let's say I wanted to sell my 35mm gear to get a 5D/7D. How much do you think it would cost me to kit one out, supposing I'd use it mainly for B-roll and occasionally as a B-cam for my EX1 (No audio)?

Thanks again to everyone that gave me their opinions and insight on this matter. I love my EX1, but wasn't sure if the 5D/7D would have been a better decision. I'd love to get one of these DSLRs, but with the EX1, I think I'm happy.

Tim Polster · October 22nd, 2009, 04:52 PM

I think you got it.

The best would be a combination of the EX and a VDSLR for specialized shots and you can use it as a still camera as well.

Sell the Letus and use that money towards the 7D.

To respond to Brian's post about still cameras not losing their value, I would have to repectfully disagree.

The still market is pumping out new models at a frantic pace and the older models just can not keep up with the sensor developments.

Check Ebay on the going rate for a 30d. The auctions with bids end around $350, a fraction of what they sold for new.

Lenses hold their value while (imho) the bodies sink like a rock.

John C. Plunkett · October 22nd, 2009, 04:52 PM

I recently (today) both sold my Redrock M2 Encore rig and picked up a Canon EOS 7D. The sale and the purchase pretty much evened out thanks to coupons and the newness of the M2 Encore. I was faced with the same issues (shallow DOF vs increased size/weight of rig) and feel I made the right choice.

Like you, I thought I would just replace our outdated HVX with the 7D, but after reading enough about the drawbacks of shooting video with a DSLR, I learned enough to realize that was a bad choice. However, selling our Redrock rig to pay for the 7D was a great decision.

Buba Kastorski · October 22nd, 2009, 04:57 PM

it totally depends on what you do and how you do it,
if you have more than one 5/7D on the set, you can shoot anything,
but most of the time I am one man show, and for me to shoot event or a broadcast with 5/7D- no way, i use EX1, but 5/7D is an excellent B cam, and even shooting alone, I do all my cutaways with 5D
I'd rather replace my EX1 with scarlet, or whatever comes with larger sensor next year, but I'm keeping 5D. I just wish it didn't have that 12 min threshold.

Bill Pryor · October 22nd, 2009, 05:39 PM

Wing, the only things you'd absolutely have to have for a B-roll camera would be the LCD viewfinder attachment. The Zacuto is the most expensive, at $400, the IDCPhotography the cheapest at $200. You'd also need one or two ND filters With the viewer, you can hold the camera up to your eye to help steady it for hand held, just as you do with any handycam format type camera--left hand cradling the lens, right hand on the right side, eypeiece up to your eye. Obviously you'd need CF cards, and a Juicedlink or something equivalent if you want to run mics into the camera (once Magic Lantern is out), or a separate recorder. There are lots of goodies you can buy, but the viewfinder attachment and ND filters are about the only must-haves at first.

The thing about shooting with an HDSLR--it's all about the lenses, so you'll find yourself accumulating more lenses and more expensive lenses as time goes by. But you can probably live with the kit lens for awhile. I agree about keeping the camera you have but trying to sell the DOF attachments. They're too much trouble anyway (just my opinion), unless you have a pressing need for shallow depth of field all the time.

October 22nd, 2009, 01:10 PM	#17
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	That may be true, but when you tell them that you'll have to stop for a 5 minute cool-down break in the middle of their hour long conference... they'll get that. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

October 22nd, 2009, 04:57 PM	#22
Buba Kastorski Trustee Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,414	it totally depends on what you do and how you do it, if you have more than one 5/7D on the set, you can shoot anything, but most of the time I am one man show, and for me to shoot event or a broadcast with 5/7D- no way, i use EX1, but 5/7D is an excellent B cam, and even shooting alone, I do all my cutaways with 5D I'd rather replace my EX1 with scarlet, or whatever comes with larger sensor next year, but I'm keeping 5D. I just wish it didn't have that 12 min threshold. __________________ I love this place!

October 22nd, 2009, 01:47 PM	#18
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	I couldn't agree more with your Perrone. The camera is only a tool in the process. If you find it difficult to earn money with your camera, selling it and getting an inferior camera isn't a very smart business decision. Unless you are an independent filmmaker and have time on your hand to make the 5D/7D work. It just isn't suited for field production work with tight deadlines or long form.

October 22nd, 2009, 04:38 PM	#19
Wing Poon New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Thibodaux, LA Posts: 24	Thanks for the replies everyone. It's good for me to read a variety of thoughts and I think I've come to the conclusion that I will keep my EX-1. To be honest, I didn't know what the limitations of the 5D/7D were until reading bits and pieces that everyone had mentioned here. I really had to sit and consider what type of video I wanted to shoot and I realized that it doesn't matter what I want to shoot, I just want to be prepared for any kind of scenario. With that in mind, the EX1 really does give me the flexibility to shoot anything that a client may want. I suppose that I posted the initial question because I loved the look that I was getting out of the Letus, but because of it's size and weight, really made me reconsider whether I wanted to add 10 extra pounds of kit just to get shallow DOF. Not having much knowledge about the 5D/7D, I thought they'd be able to replace the entire rig. But I'm thankful that you guys added bits and pieces of information about these cameras. Yes, they do produce beautiful shots. Yes, they would work extremely well as film camera. But they do have limitations that prevent them from being truly flexible in the video field. I never really thought of the ergonomics of shooting video with a DSLR. My EX1 isn't the most comfortable to use, but I think it's certainly easier to hold it for longer periods of time than to hold a DSLR out in front of me. A lot of you have also brought up the things about the 5D/7D that I hadn't considered, like adjustable viewfinder, proper audio recording, time codes, built-in NDs, autofocus, etc. I've never shot video with a camera that DIDN'T have those things, so I guess I never considered what it would be like NOT to have those things. Some of you had mentioned that it'd be a good idea to sell the 35mm in favor for a 5D/7D, and that doesn't really sound out of the question for me. I mean, I love the look I can get out of the Letus, but it's a pain lugging everything around. A lot of shoots I do are naturally lit; rarely do I ever set up lights for any of my shoots. So the light loss is a killer for me with the Letus + lenses. All in all, my 35mm kit (Letus, lenses, rails, supports) have cost me between $2k - $3k. I think I'd be lucky to get even half of that back if I sell it. Let's say I wanted to sell my 35mm gear to get a 5D/7D. How much do you think it would cost me to kit one out, supposing I'd use it mainly for B-roll and occasionally as a B-cam for my EX1 (No audio)? Thanks again to everyone that gave me their opinions and insight on this matter. I love my EX1, but wasn't sure if the 5D/7D would have been a better decision. I'd love to get one of these DSLRs, but with the EX1, I think I'm happy.

October 22nd, 2009, 04:52 PM	#20
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	I think you got it. The best would be a combination of the EX and a VDSLR for specialized shots and you can use it as a still camera as well. Sell the Letus and use that money towards the 7D. To respond to Brian's post about still cameras not losing their value, I would have to repectfully disagree. The still market is pumping out new models at a frantic pace and the older models just can not keep up with the sensor developments. Check Ebay on the going rate for a 30d. The auctions with bids end around $350, a fraction of what they sold for new. Lenses hold their value while (imho) the bodies sink like a rock.

October 22nd, 2009, 04:52 PM	#21
John C. Plunkett Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Jacksonville, Illinois Posts: 130	I recently (today) both sold my Redrock M2 Encore rig and picked up a Canon EOS 7D. The sale and the purchase pretty much evened out thanks to coupons and the newness of the M2 Encore. I was faced with the same issues (shallow DOF vs increased size/weight of rig) and feel I made the right choice. Like you, I thought I would just replace our outdated HVX with the 7D, but after reading enough about the drawbacks of shooting video with a DSLR, I learned enough to realize that was a bad choice. However, selling our Redrock rig to pay for the 7D was a great decision.

October 22nd, 2009, 05:39 PM	#23
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Wing, the only things you'd absolutely have to have for a B-roll camera would be the LCD viewfinder attachment. The Zacuto is the most expensive, at $400, the IDCPhotography the cheapest at $200. You'd also need one or two ND filters With the viewer, you can hold the camera up to your eye to help steady it for hand held, just as you do with any handycam format type camera--left hand cradling the lens, right hand on the right side, eypeiece up to your eye. Obviously you'd need CF cards, and a Juicedlink or something equivalent if you want to run mics into the camera (once Magic Lantern is out), or a separate recorder. There are lots of goodies you can buy, but the viewfinder attachment and ND filters are about the only must-haves at first. The thing about shooting with an HDSLR--it's all about the lenses, so you'll find yourself accumulating more lenses and more expensive lenses as time goes by. But you can probably live with the kit lens for awhile. I agree about keeping the camera you have but trying to sell the DOF attachments. They're too much trouble anyway (just my opinion), unless you have a pressing need for shallow depth of field all the time.