7d vs 5dmkII article at DVinfo.net

Phil Bloom · September 24th, 2009, 02:39 PM

I know it doesn't answer ALL your questions but no article ever can. Hopefully it will help you decide as only you can decide, not me!

Philip Bloom Blog Archive “5d or 7d”, That is the question…

Roberto Lanczos · September 24th, 2009, 02:51 PM

Thank you Phil...

You da MAN ;)

Jon Fairhurst · September 24th, 2009, 03:21 PM

Nice article!

The only thing missing is a discussion of Magic Lantern. (Have you taken it for a spin yet? With three cams in hand and the fact that there are no reported failures due to ML, the risk is minuscule.) Tramm expects to port it to the 7D in a few months time, but there are no guarantees, as he doesn't have a 7D at this time.

The implication is that you must do double system sound on the 7D for the time being. You have to take the extra time to snap photos and check histograms, as compared to using live zebras, histogram, and waveform. And you can't do press-of-a-button rack focus to a set point. Yet.

I REALLY hope that Canon gives us 24/25p - and 720/60 - on the 5D. And I hope that somebody donates a 7D to Tramm, so the port happens quickly.

Once the firmware playing field is level, then Canon will have a killer one-two punch. The only questions when deciding between the cams will be the angle of view, lenses, and roughly one thousand dollars.

Phil Bloom · September 24th, 2009, 04:56 PM

yep Magic Lantern is cool but as it is not official it can't be included in the equation!

Jon Fairhurst · September 24th, 2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

yep Magic Lantern is cool but as it is not official it can't be included in the equation!

It's a big part of my equation. I don't shoot video (or audio - especially audio) on the 5D2 without it.

But my equation doesn't include a pre-production unit from the manufacturer. That does change things a bit. :)

That said, Tim Smith, Product Manager of Digital Imaging at Canon USA, openly acknowledged the 3rd party firmware - even if he did think it was from Switzerland. :)

Digital Cinema Society - New Streaming

Phil Bloom · September 24th, 2009, 05:28 PM

i can't mention Magic Lantern as it is not officially supported no matter how cool it is.

I record sound with my zoom h4n.

The pre production model as far as I know is identical to the production model. I saw no flaws in it.

Christopher Drews · September 24th, 2009, 05:42 PM

Hey Phil - Where is the rolling shutter comparison you mention in your article. I'd love to see that.
-C

Tramm Hudson · September 24th, 2009, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

yep Magic Lantern is cool but as it is not official it can't be included in the equation!

Is that part of an agreement with Canon to have access to the pre-production model? That sort of restriction would seem to require some disclosure on your review.

In my opinion, the requirement of two-system audio due to the always-on AGC and high analog gain settings on the stock 5D and 7D firmwares is a definite limitation that merits mention. Until we have Magic Lantern running on the 7D, the audio problems alone are very practical reasons to stick with the 5D.

EDIT: Also worth mentioning -- the 7D continues to output HD on the HDMI port while recording, while the stock 5D drops to 480p. This may or may not be fixed in a later version of Magic Lantern.

EDIT: The 7D records 48 KHz audio, while the 5D is only 44.1 KHz. This is less of a hassle than 30p versus 29.97 or 24p, but still worth mentioning in your comprehensive comparison.

Chris Barcellos · September 24th, 2009, 07:39 PM

Well, I can mention it. With the sound level meters, agc disabling, audio monitoring, zebras, and programable focus pull, Magic Lantern has to be considered.

My hope is that Canon hasn't decided to cramp the access Tramm has gained to the 5D on the 7D

Phil Bloom · September 25th, 2009, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramm Hudson

Is that part of an agreement with Canon to have access to the pre-production model? That sort of restriction would seem to require some disclosure on your review.

In my opinion, the requirement of two-system audio due to the always-on AGC and high analog gain settings on the stock 5D and 7D firmwares is a definite limitation that merits mention. Until we have Magic Lantern running on the 7D, the audio problems alone are very practical reasons to stick with the 5D.

EDIT: Also worth mentioning -- the 7D continues to output HD on the HDMI port while recording, while the stock 5D drops to 480p. This may or may not be fixed in a later version of Magic Lantern.

EDIT: The 7D records 48 KHz audio, while the 5D is only 44.1 KHz. This is less of a hassle than 30p versus 29.97 or 24p, but still worth mentioning in your comprehensive comparison.

No not at all! I have mentioned Magic Lantern many times but I can't include the cool things Magic Lantern does to the 5dmkII as a plus as it is not out of the box. That is what I am comparing.

You are doing awesome things with Magic Lantern. But I don't think people should be put off buying the 7d because it isn't running on it yet. I advocate recording sound separately but like the article all this is just my opinion!

Phil Bloom · September 25th, 2009, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

Well, I can mention it. With the sound level meters, agc disabling, audio monitoring, zebras, and programable focus pull, Magic Lantern has to be considered.

My hope is that Canon hasn't decided to cramp the access Tramm has gained to the 5D on the 7D

Paranoia and conspiracy grip DVInfo. I was not under any restrictions when getting the pre-production 7d other than saying it is a pre production model!

As I said, I am comparing the two cameras out of the box only! Surely that makes sense?

I am super pro Magic Lantern! I just want Canon to employ Tramm and get all these great features included as proper firmware!!

Phil Bloom · September 25th, 2009, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopher Drews

Hey Phil - Where is the rolling shutter comparison you mention in your article. I'd love to see that.
-C

It's almost 1gb as its native and it's struggling to upload to Vimeo and Exposure Room

Phil Bloom · September 25th, 2009, 03:22 AM

But I will mention it as an addition to show support to Tramm as have done in past blogs.

Simon Denny · September 25th, 2009, 03:52 AM

Where does 1/2" and 2/3" chips fit in size wise with the 5D and 7D?
Is there any info on this?

Cheers

Phil Bloom · September 25th, 2009, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Ash

Where does 1/2" and 2/3" chips fit in size wise with the 5D and 7D?
Is there any info on this?

Cheers

Here we go!

September 24th, 2009, 02:39 PM	#1
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	7d vs 5dmkII article I know it doesn't answer ALL your questions but no article ever can. Hopefully it will help you decide as only you can decide, not me! Philip Bloom Blog Archive “5d or 7d”, That is the question… __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

September 24th, 2009, 03:21 PM	#3
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Nice article! The only thing missing is a discussion of Magic Lantern. (Have you taken it for a spin yet? With three cams in hand and the fact that there are no reported failures due to ML, the risk is minuscule.) Tramm expects to port it to the 7D in a few months time, but there are no guarantees, as he doesn't have a 7D at this time. The implication is that you must do double system sound on the 7D for the time being. You have to take the extra time to snap photos and check histograms, as compared to using live zebras, histogram, and waveform. And you can't do press-of-a-button rack focus to a set point. Yet. I REALLY hope that Canon gives us 24/25p - and 720/60 - on the 5D. And I hope that somebody donates a 7D to Tramm, so the port happens quickly. Once the firmware playing field is level, then Canon will have a killer one-two punch. The only questions when deciding between the cams will be the angle of view, lenses, and roughly one thousand dollars. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

September 24th, 2009, 04:56 PM	#4
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	yep Magic Lantern is cool but as it is not official it can't be included in the equation! __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

September 24th, 2009, 05:28 PM	#6
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	i can't mention Magic Lantern as it is not officially supported no matter how cool it is. I record sound with my zoom h4n. The pre production model as far as I know is identical to the production model. I saw no flaws in it. __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

September 24th, 2009, 07:39 PM	#9
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Well, I can mention it. With the sound level meters, agc disabling, audio monitoring, zebras, and programable focus pull, Magic Lantern has to be considered. My hope is that Canon hasn't decided to cramp the access Tramm has gained to the 5D on the 7D __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

September 24th, 2009, 02:51 PM	#2
Roberto Lanczos Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 113	Thank you Phil... You da MAN ;)

September 24th, 2009, 05:42 PM	#7
Christopher Drews Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 628	Hey Phil - Where is the rolling shutter comparison you mention in your article. I'd love to see that. -C

September 25th, 2009, 03:22 AM	#13
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	But I will mention it as an addition to show support to Tramm as have done in past blogs. __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

September 25th, 2009, 03:52 AM	#14
Simon Denny Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,409	Where does 1/2" and 2/3" chips fit in size wise with the 5D and 7D? Is there any info on this? Cheers