5D vs. 7D - The battle begins.

[Bill Pryor]

I have a Tamron 17-35. It's 2.8 at the wide end but goes down to around 4.5 at the long end. It's a decent lens, not spectacular but pretty good. Heavy and well built ,and can be used with full frame cams.

[John Stakes]

Originally Posted by Ian G. Thompson

More capable for whom? That’s the question one really needs to answer. If you are a stills photographer then yes it would be deemed a more capable camera than the 7D. But as a video guy who wants a standard 35mm format I think the 7D is a much more capable camera. Having a full sensor (2 me) does not determine how much more capable a cam is to another. There are a number of things that matter. In this case the variable frame rate, super codec and its current sensor size is it for me. The HV20 has a bigger sensor than most prosumer cams….but is it more capable? Nope. But even that depend (especially if you are one who rather a small form camcorder). If the low light on the 5Dll and 7D turns out to be similar then really the only thing the 5Dll has over the other cam is the size of its sensor. But once again that alone might be more important to another (not me).

Yes Ian, you are correct, that's what I intended, that the features are more crafted towards Photographers than anyone else. As far as the sensor topic, I removed that from my post, perhaps before you finished your reply. I'm a Video person (so far), that's why I opt for the 7D.

JS

[Ger Griffin]

If the larger sensor allows for more light then in theory the 5dmk2 would allow for narrower apertures at equal exposures. In other words longer DOF without losing light. Sometimes i hate the shallow DOF on wedding work. I find it annoying when the focus shifts over and back from bride to groom at random times. Ideally both should be in focus and beyond and in front of that should be where the focus falls off. So that would place the 5dmk2 firmly in front of the 7d in some lowlight locations.

[Josh Dahlberg]

Originally Posted by Ger Griffin

If the larger sensor allows for more light then in theory the 5dmk2 would allow for narrower apertures at equal exposures. In other words longer DOF without losing light.

But because the 5Dm2 has shallower DOF at equivalent apertures the effect you're talking about is cancelled out. Even if you open up the 7D a full stop you still achieve slightly deeper DOF than the 5DmkII (there is a really good example of this in the 7D forum at dpreview).

I think here in Pal land the 5d/7d choice is a little simpler. The lack of 25p is a huge problem for us. I really don't want to give up full-frame, but if you do any production work in Pal countries, the 7d makes much more sense.

[Ger Griffin]

Oh yes i see what you mean. Thats good to know.
Im like yourself Josh, for me its a no brainer. 25p all the way.

[Liam Hall]

Originally Posted by Ger Griffin

If the larger sensor allows for more light then in theory the 5dmk2 would allow for narrower apertures at equal exposures. In other words longer DOF without losing light. Sometimes i hate the shallow DOF on wedding work. I find it annoying when the focus shifts over and back from bride to groom at random times. Ideally both should be in focus and beyond and in front of that should be where the focus falls off. So that would place the 5dmk2 firmly in front of the 7d in some lowlight locations.

Nope. The size of the sensor doesn't affect sensitivity. ISO 100 is ISO 100 in FF, APS-C, medium format or anything else. Indeed, the smaller sensor will get you deeper DOF for the same FOV/aperture.

[Jon Fairhurst]

Originally Posted by Liam Hall

Nope. The size of the sensor doesn't affect sensitivity. ISO 100 is ISO 100 in FF, APS-C, medium format or anything else. Indeed, the smaller sensor will get you deeper DOF for the same FOV/aperture.

While true, I can shoot at 1250 ISO (essentially, a gain of 12.5) with very little noise on the 5D2. Try that with a 1/3" camcorder.

Of course, the 7D is no 1/3" camcorder, and it has a newer generation sensor and noise reduction algorithm. I haven't used one yet, but I'd guess that the noise won't be all that different from the 5D2. It might measure differently in the lab, but I doubt that there will be much real-world difference.

[Josh Dahlberg]

Originally Posted by Liam Hall

Nope. The size of the sensor doesn't affect sensitivity. ISO 100 is ISO 100 in FF, APS-C, medium format or anything else. Indeed, the smaller sensor will get you deeper DOF for the same FOV/aperture.

You're right of course, the exposures ought to be the same, but *provided that* the sensor technology is equivalent, the noise levels won't be. The 5Dmk2 ought to have a 1 stop advantage in low iso noise - ie: iso 200 on the 7D will produce noise levels of the 5Dm2 at 400.

This assumes the 7D hasn't made a great leap in terms of sensor technology / processing - too early to say at this stage but there are pixel peepers on some forums giving 7D low iso images (the few available) a pretty rough going over. From what I've seen (from the few samples online) the 5Dm2 does enjoy a low iso advantage, as it should. The 7D seems to hold it's own surprisingly well in terms of high iso.

[Ray Bell]

There's been lots of testing of the 7D noise vs the 5d2 noise... what has so far been determined is that the 5D2 has less noise but the noise seems to show a pattern (banding)
ever so slightly...

The noise on the 7D is very slightly more than the 5D2 but they aren't seeing any pattern
to the noise...

So the consensus is, 7D has slightly more noise, but its " Quality Noise "... some are comparing the 7D noise to film grain.

and of course the randomized noise of the 7D is easier to take care of in post edits...

[John Stakes]

Originally Posted by Ray Bell

...So the consensus is, 7D has slightly more noise, but its " Quality Noise "... some are comparing the 7D noise to film grain...

"Dun dun Duunnnnn"

I've always noticed that film grain was slightly more pleasent to look at, most of the time, than digital. I never thought about any science behind it though. Very interesting.

[Ger Griffin]

Liam I wasnt speaking about iso at all.
I was talking about the size of the sensor allowing more light fall onto it therefor at equal iso one camera would allow for a better exposure than the other. What else is the whole point of emphasis being on sensor size. I was simply speculating that if it would be possible to have deeper dof with a well exposed 5d shot than a well exposed 7d shot this would be a good thing. Johsh reminded me that sensor size increasing reduces dof so both cancel each other out. Obviously iso needs to come into play next.

[Mitja Popovski]

Anyone intrested how the battle ends?
YouTube - Mr Hitler not happy about the Canon 7d...

[Liam Hall]

Originally Posted by Ger Griffin

Liam I wasnt speaking about iso at all.
I was talking about the size of the sensor allowing more light fall onto it therefor at equal iso one camera would allow for a better exposure than the other.

Ger, the exposure would be exactly the same on both cameras. The smaller sensor merely crops the image.

[Ger Griffin]

Really?
I just cant follow this any more. My head hurts.
Well i placed my order today for a 7d today so soon.... sooon..
ill be shooting stunning footage!!!

[Liam Hall]

Originally Posted by Ger Griffin

Really?
I just cant follow this any more. My head hurts.
Well i placed my order today for a 7d today so soon.... sooon..
ill be shooting stunning footage!!!

And that is all that matters. Have fun with it:)