Question regarding HDMI output for focusing at DVinfo.net

Andrew Oh · September 1st, 2009, 01:18 AM

Hello all,

First of all, I'm very excited about the 7D announcement today as it looks to be a spectacular video camera with the addition of 24P, higher bit rate, and overcranking options in 720P.

The one thing I really disliked about the 5DII as a cinema camera was the 480P SD output when recording video. One of the most important upgrades, to me, would be if the 7D can offer HD output while recording video for critical focusing on an external monitor. I've scoured every press release and specs page and can't find what resolution the mini HDMI outputs when recording.

Can anyone post their findings? Thanks!

Brian Boyko · September 1st, 2009, 02:53 AM

Looks good so far - Native 24p recording (no pulldown!). And Canon APS-C sized sensors at 22.3 x 14.9 mm is almost exactly the same size as 35mm movie film (which shoots at 22 by 16 mm if you have an optical sound track).

(By comparison, the 5Dm2 shoots full frame, like "Vistavision,")

I just bought a Rebel T1i, mostly because I needed something to shoot with -now- and I won't really need the super-high-end stuff until much later, but in a few months, this is an absolute no-brainer buy for me... IF these questions can be answered:

- Can you lock the sound gain, or manually adjust it?
- What is the bitrate on the AVCHD codec? Is it at least 17mbps?
- Can you monitor the sound with headphones?

and most importantly:

- Can you record for longer than 12 minutes? (I.e., will it start a new movie file after the 4gb limit is reached?)

Alex Chong · September 1st, 2009, 06:32 AM

Brian,

I think two of your questions have been answered. Tramm has a thread about the audio monitoring and looks like the 7D doesn't have a headphone jack. And its still 12min of HD recording. As for the AGC, looks like you may need a new version of ML to switch it off. That's if Tramm is going to write a new firmware for the 7D.

James Bresnahan · September 1st, 2009, 06:37 AM

According to Dpreview its 5.5 MBps. Which equals appx. 44 mbps?

Looks like Canon has something more robust than 17mbps.

Brain Boyko asked:

- What is the bitrate on the AVCHD codec? Is it at least 17mbps?

Chad Jones · September 1st, 2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Bresnahan

According to Dpreview its 5.5 MBps. Which equals appx. 44 mbps?

Looks like Canon has something more robust than 17mbps.

James,

Which DP review did you find that spec on? I was unable to find it. Thanks!

Chris Hurd · September 1st, 2009, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Chong

looks like the 7D doesn't have a headphone jack.

But it does have an A/V jack: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/1297686-post2.html

Eugenia Loli-Queru · September 1st, 2009, 01:28 PM

The 7D bitrate is closer to 48 mbps. Higher than 5D's 41 mbps.

Stephen Mick · September 1st, 2009, 02:16 PM

So, does anyone have an answer to the OP's question? Is the HDMI out on this thing hobbled like it is on the 5DMkII?

Chris Barcellos · September 1st, 2009, 02:42 PM

Hey Canon, I volunteer.... send me a preproduction, 7D so I can check this stuff out for us video users.

Guy Cochran · September 2nd, 2009, 10:42 AM

For some of the rock-n-roll events I've shot, I can see a few of the $100k box lensed cameras getting replaced with a 7D and some long glass along with an HDMI to HDSDI converter if the HDMI output is in fact free from any on-screen display.

Can someone please confirm if the HDMI is clean?

Jon Fairhurst · September 2nd, 2009, 10:58 AM

If there are strobe lights at the concerts, you don't want a camera with rolling shutter...

NIN: 1,000,000 Live from on stage, Sydney 2.22.09 [HD] on Vimeo

Henry Olonga · September 2nd, 2009, 11:13 AM

This is the answer I got after asking a videographer on Vimeo who has/had a sample pre-production unit.

''Hi Henry

To answer your questions:

I am at the VISA festival in Perpignan, France (where the 7D was launched) and I have a working relationship with Canon. This is where I have got hold of a pre-production unit.

There is no uncompressed HDMI signal out of the camera but there is a port allowing you to display the footage on a TV.''

I have asked for clarification as to whether his answer means that there isn't a live feed at all - which would not be likely (perhaps like the 5D's it is downsampled); but what he does seem to suggest is that it appears from his answer that it isn't uncompressed as we may have hoped.Don't take this as gospel just yet

Guy Cochran · September 2nd, 2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

If there are strobe lights at the concerts, you don't want a camera with rolling shutter...

NIN: 1,000,000 Live from on stage, Sydney 2.22.09 [HD] on Vimeo

Thanks Jon, I'd seen the NIN video when it was first posted. The Fujinon Digi 66 rents for about $1k/day. A lot of the gigs are 2-3 day spans. Just having the option of having a few more angles would be awesome- we could make the decision to cut to the CMOS cameras on the fly, if the rolling shutter is too intense on the preview monitor, we'll stay on the CCD based camera. I'm sure the big ole broadcast cameras won't be replaced right away as the CCU allows for total control of the camera....hmmm then again, I'm sure we're not far away from getting USB control....exciting times we're in. I'd love to say goodbye to 500' reels of triax.
And I bet if it would save thousands over the course of a tour, the LD could be told to ease up on the strobes.

Below is a shot of the big Fujinon Digi 66. Also the Grass Valley HDSDI based Indigo Mixer/Switcher along with a few CCU's.

Tim Polster · September 2nd, 2009, 11:35 AM

Nice.

If Canon does not have this HDMI output then they are definately withholding for some reason either technical or product line related.

They would have to now by now that this feature is very important for the video-DSLRs to gain professional traction.

I am not going to try and focus thin DOF 1080p on a 3" still camera LCD!

Xavier Plagaro · September 3rd, 2009, 07:00 AM

I think the CMOS are here to stay, the problem with strobos are just seen by video people, the rest of the world doesn't care!

A real non compressed HDMI output would be the cherry on the cake!

September 1st, 2009, 01:18 AM	#1
Andrew Oh Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 86	Question regarding HDMI output for focusing Hello all, First of all, I'm very excited about the 7D announcement today as it looks to be a spectacular video camera with the addition of 24P, higher bit rate, and overcranking options in 720P. The one thing I really disliked about the 5DII as a cinema camera was the 480P SD output when recording video. One of the most important upgrades, to me, would be if the 7D can offer HD output while recording video for critical focusing on an external monitor. I've scoured every press release and specs page and can't find what resolution the mini HDMI outputs when recording. Can anyone post their findings? Thanks!

September 1st, 2009, 02:53 AM	#2
Brian Boyko Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 773	Looks good so far - Native 24p recording (no pulldown!). And Canon APS-C sized sensors at 22.3 x 14.9 mm is almost exactly the same size as 35mm movie film (which shoots at 22 by 16 mm if you have an optical sound track). (By comparison, the 5Dm2 shoots full frame, like "Vistavision,") I just bought a Rebel T1i, mostly because I needed something to shoot with -now- and I won't really need the super-high-end stuff until much later, but in a few months, this is an absolute no-brainer buy for me... IF these questions can be answered: - Can you lock the sound gain, or manually adjust it? - What is the bitrate on the AVCHD codec? Is it at least 17mbps? - Can you monitor the sound with headphones? and most importantly: - Can you record for longer than 12 minutes? (I.e., will it start a new movie file after the 4gb limit is reached?) __________________ Equip: Panny GH1, Canon HG20, Juicedlink, AT897, Sennh. EW/GW100, Zoom H2, Vegas 8.1

September 1st, 2009, 06:37 AM	#4
James Bresnahan Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 30	7D Bitrate According to Dpreview its 5.5 MBps. Which equals appx. 44 mbps? Looks like Canon has something more robust than 17mbps. Brain Boyko asked: - What is the bitrate on the AVCHD codec? Is it at least 17mbps?

September 1st, 2009, 02:16 PM	#8
Stephen Mick Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 167	Hdmi So, does anyone have an answer to the OP's question? Is the HDMI out on this thing hobbled like it is on the 5DMkII?

September 1st, 2009, 02:42 PM	#9
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Hey Canon, I volunteer.... send me a preproduction, 7D so I can check this stuff out for us video users. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

September 1st, 2009, 06:32 AM	#3
Alex Chong Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Brunei Posts: 140	Brian, I think two of your questions have been answered. Tramm has a thread about the audio monitoring and looks like the 7D doesn't have a headphone jack. And its still 12min of HD recording. As for the AGC, looks like you may need a new version of ML to switch it off. That's if Tramm is going to write a new firmware for the 7D.

September 1st, 2009, 01:28 PM	#7
Eugenia Loli-Queru Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bay Area, CA, USA Posts: 348	The 7D bitrate is closer to 48 mbps. Higher than 5D's 41 mbps.

September 2nd, 2009, 10:42 AM	#10
Guy Cochran DVCreators.Net Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 892	For some of the rock-n-roll events I've shot, I can see a few of the $100k box lensed cameras getting replaced with a 7D and some long glass along with an HDMI to HDSDI converter if the HDMI output is in fact free from any on-screen display. Can someone please confirm if the HDMI is clean? __________________ Guy Cochran DVinfo Sponsor, Cool Gear - DVeStore!

September 2nd, 2009, 10:58 AM	#11
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	If there are strobe lights at the concerts, you don't want a camera with rolling shutter... NIN: 1,000,000 Live from on stage, Sydney 2.22.09 [HD] on Vimeo __________________ Jon Fairhurst

September 2nd, 2009, 11:13 AM	#12
Henry Olonga Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 201	Unlikely This is the answer I got after asking a videographer on Vimeo who has/had a sample pre-production unit. ''Hi Henry To answer your questions: I am at the VISA festival in Perpignan, France (where the 7D was launched) and I have a working relationship with Canon. This is where I have got hold of a pre-production unit. There is no uncompressed HDMI signal out of the camera but there is a port allowing you to display the footage on a TV.'' I have asked for clarification as to whether his answer means that there isn't a live feed at all - which would not be likely (perhaps like the 5D's it is downsampled); but what he does seem to suggest is that it appears from his answer that it isn't uncompressed as we may have hoped.Don't take this as gospel just yet __________________ My vimeo page: http://vimeo.com/henryolonga/videos My website: www.henryolonga.net

September 2nd, 2009, 11:35 AM	#14
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Nice. If Canon does not have this HDMI output then they are definately withholding for some reason either technical or product line related. They would have to now by now that this feature is very important for the video-DSLRs to gain professional traction. I am not going to try and focus thin DOF 1080p on a 3" still camera LCD!

September 3rd, 2009, 07:00 AM	#15
Xavier Plagaro Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Rome, Italy Posts: 90	I think the CMOS are here to stay, the problem with strobos are just seen by video people, the rest of the world doesn't care! A real non compressed HDMI output would be the cherry on the cake!