7D have 24p but why not 5DM2

Roger Wilson · September 6th, 2009, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Yates

Of course it might be possible, but there's not much use in getting yourself worked up about the possibility that it can be done, and Canon are just holding out for whatever reason. If the 5D doesn't meet your needs in its current state, buy something else that does. It seems a bit disingenious to fork out cash on expensive equipment in the hope that it might eventually be upgraded do what you want it to.

I whole heartedly agree with Craig.

This arugment for an upgrade of the 5dMkII is like saying "I purchased a a 2 seater BWM, but now I'm upset because there is no where to put the baby seat." If the hardware wasn't designed to support it, then there won't be any upgrade. As consumers, we were never told that the camera would support additional functionality, therefore we should not be expecting it.

Jacob Mason · September 7th, 2009, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Wilson

As consumers, we were never told that the camera would support additional functionality, therefore we should not be expecting it.

Beg to differ.
Perhaps Canon shouldn't have wet appetites with the allowance of the full manual controls firmware update. Now, with even louder demand on 24p, people are expecting Canon to submit again.
It's a reasonable expectation.

Bill Pryor · September 7th, 2009, 09:01 AM

I bet if they do it, it'll be in the form of a new camera, not something you can download. This is a much smaller thing, but on the XH A1 it would have been nice to be able to use one of the custom buttons for turning on and off the OIS instead of having to go to the menu. Everybody thought that should be an easy thing to do with software. They did it, but on the XH A1s. No downloadable upgrade for the old camera.

Jon Fairhurst · September 7th, 2009, 06:31 PM

If Canon upgrades the 5D2 in November, they will have a killer tandem for Xmas. Anybody wanting high (not perfect) quality shallow DOF video will be drawn to the 7D or 5D depending on their needs and budget.

Canon should strike while the iron is hot. By the time the 5D Mark III is available, Nikon and others will present more competition.

I believe that this will affect photographers as well. Often when I buy a product, I am tempted by features that I don't expect to use much, just in case. If I buy without the feature, I might have long-term regret. If I have to spend a bit more than I wanted to get the feature, the extra cash is soon forgotten. Photographers will want the cool video thing as an insurance policy. Video could become important to their business with a single client or assignment.

Bill Pryor · September 8th, 2009, 09:29 AM

I'd lay odds on the chance they'd come out with a 2/3" chip XH A1 type camera before they redo the 5DMKII. If the Scarlet really does get built and on the market in the near future, it probably would be a major blow to the 1/3" chip pro cameras. The 5DMKII seems to be hitting its intended market right where it counts, and the 7D may do the same. The only real advantage( for video) I can see with the 5DMKII is that a wide angle lens is really a wide angle lens. An advantage for the 7D will be if cine lens adapters come out at a reasonable price. Maybe even a C-mount one so we could scrounge around and get old super fast C-mount lenses from old Bell & Howells off eBay....

Don Miller · September 8th, 2009, 10:55 AM

There's an interview with Vincent LaForet in which he says, in his opinion, there's not going to be 24p on the 5DII any time soon.

I'm sure there's a variety of opinions within Canon about how this situation should be handled. But the people in Canon who make these decisions are pretty far removed from the western world. I wonder what's going on in the east with this product?

I would be shocked to see a 5DIII within a year. The next full frame camera is likely a 1 series at $7K.

The only reason we got manual control on the 5DII is that we were purchasing third party lenses for aperture control. By giving us 24p on the 5D they just decrease future camera sales. They have no reason to want to do that. I wouldn't do it if I were in charge.

Don Miller · September 8th, 2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Pryor

I'd lay odds on the chance they'd come out with a 2/3" chip XH A1 type camera before they redo the 5DMKII. If the Scarlet really does get built and on the market in the near future, it probably would be a major blow to the 1/3" chip pro cameras. The 5DMKII seems to be hitting its intended market right where it counts, and the 7D may do the same. The only real advantage( for video) I can see with the 5DMKII is that a wide angle lens is really a wide angle lens. An advantage for the 7D will be if cine lens adapters come out at a reasonable price. Maybe even a C-mount one so we could scrounge around and get old super fast C-mount lenses from old Bell & Howells off eBay....

XH and photography are two different divisions. Since the 5DII video response caught Canon by surprise, I'm sure they're confused how this all fits together. Sony's single 2/3 chip camera is good but not great. So I think 2/3 may be too small at this point.

How this technology all fits together, and sony coming in as a third player, will be fascinating. I am confident that Canon can come up to RED quality in a year or two. As exciting as all this is, it aint RED yet.

Bill Pryor · September 8th, 2009, 11:37 AM

Well, the APS-C size chip on the 7D is very close (about 2mm less) in size to the Red One's chip. But we're not going to get that quality in a sub-$2K piece of equipment and with H.264.

I think we're in a minority when it comes to wanting 24p. The 5DMKII is still one of the most desired cameras around. As long as that camera is selling all over the world, the bean counters at Canon are happy. In my case the 24p of the 7D is more desirable than the shallower depth of field of the 5DMKII. But others may prefer that. What's more desirable about the 5DMKII for me is that a 24mm lens is a 24mm lens. The 1.6 multiplier is slightly annoying but only in that I use wide angles more than long lenses, for most of the work I do. I'm not one who wants every shot to be a shallow depth of field; I consider it an effect and the 7D allows me to do it when I want. And for Steadicam work, a bit more depth of field helps with focus.

What would make my day with the 7D would be available cine lens adapters...and less expensive cine lenses (although the old C-mount lenses can still be found...people are using C-mount 16mm lenses on the Panasonic Lumix G1, whose sensor is about the right size for that).

September 7th, 2009, 06:31 PM	#109
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	If Canon upgrades the 5D2 in November, they will have a killer tandem for Xmas. Anybody wanting high (not perfect) quality shallow DOF video will be drawn to the 7D or 5D depending on their needs and budget. Canon should strike while the iron is hot. By the time the 5D Mark III is available, Nikon and others will present more competition. I believe that this will affect photographers as well. Often when I buy a product, I am tempted by features that I don't expect to use much, just in case. If I buy without the feature, I might have long-term regret. If I have to spend a bit more than I wanted to get the feature, the extra cash is soon forgotten. Photographers will want the cool video thing as an insurance policy. Video could become important to their business with a single client or assignment. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

September 7th, 2009, 09:01 AM	#108
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I bet if they do it, it'll be in the form of a new camera, not something you can download. This is a much smaller thing, but on the XH A1 it would have been nice to be able to use one of the custom buttons for turning on and off the OIS instead of having to go to the menu. Everybody thought that should be an easy thing to do with software. They did it, but on the XH A1s. No downloadable upgrade for the old camera.

September 8th, 2009, 09:29 AM	#110
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I'd lay odds on the chance they'd come out with a 2/3" chip XH A1 type camera before they redo the 5DMKII. If the Scarlet really does get built and on the market in the near future, it probably would be a major blow to the 1/3" chip pro cameras. The 5DMKII seems to be hitting its intended market right where it counts, and the 7D may do the same. The only real advantage( for video) I can see with the 5DMKII is that a wide angle lens is really a wide angle lens. An advantage for the 7D will be if cine lens adapters come out at a reasonable price. Maybe even a C-mount one so we could scrounge around and get old super fast C-mount lenses from old Bell & Howells off eBay....

September 8th, 2009, 10:55 AM	#111
Don Miller Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 706	There's an interview with Vincent LaForet in which he says, in his opinion, there's not going to be 24p on the 5DII any time soon. I'm sure there's a variety of opinions within Canon about how this situation should be handled. But the people in Canon who make these decisions are pretty far removed from the western world. I wonder what's going on in the east with this product? I would be shocked to see a 5DIII within a year. The next full frame camera is likely a 1 series at $7K. The only reason we got manual control on the 5DII is that we were purchasing third party lenses for aperture control. By giving us 24p on the 5D they just decrease future camera sales. They have no reason to want to do that. I wouldn't do it if I were in charge.

September 8th, 2009, 11:37 AM	#113
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Well, the APS-C size chip on the 7D is very close (about 2mm less) in size to the Red One's chip. But we're not going to get that quality in a sub-$2K piece of equipment and with H.264. I think we're in a minority when it comes to wanting 24p. The 5DMKII is still one of the most desired cameras around. As long as that camera is selling all over the world, the bean counters at Canon are happy. In my case the 24p of the 7D is more desirable than the shallower depth of field of the 5DMKII. But others may prefer that. What's more desirable about the 5DMKII for me is that a 24mm lens is a 24mm lens. The 1.6 multiplier is slightly annoying but only in that I use wide angles more than long lenses, for most of the work I do. I'm not one who wants every shot to be a shallow depth of field; I consider it an effect and the 7D allows me to do it when I want. And for Steadicam work, a bit more depth of field helps with focus. What would make my day with the 7D would be available cine lens adapters...and less expensive cine lenses (although the old C-mount lenses can still be found...people are using C-mount 16mm lenses on the Panasonic Lumix G1, whose sensor is about the right size for that).